Hi

My name is Andrew, I am 49 years old and I am from Rotorua, New Zealand.

I downloaded and read TSOGR book one week ago, and after reading it, now realise that I have done myself and my family an injustice by living a life of frugality, struggle and deprivation, in the mistaken belief that it was a noble way to live. Thinking about it now, it was not even living, but more like existing, and I have difficulty understanding how I could ever have considered it noble.

In attempting to understand what TSOGR is about, I take this opportunity to express my thanks and gratitude that TSOGR and all who are associated with it have come into my life at this time.

I have no hesitation in saying that while reading the TSOGR book, the words and writings of Wattle seemed to just jump out of the pages and gel with me quite easily. Naturally, I do not presume that implementation of the "certain way" will be as easy, as like everybody else, I will need to alter and change a lifetime of habits, and moreso, my way of thinking.

I look forward to this journey with others in TSOGR community, and after enroling on the Practical Genius course, I expect to have fun; I expect to enlighten myself; but most of all, I EXPECT SUCCESS.

I AM READY! I AM WILLING!

Blessings

Hello Andrew,

Fist, let me just say, welcome, and I hope you succeed and enjoy wonderful prosperity, health, love, peace and happiness.

Now then, what follows is just my opinion. I truly don’t know if Wattles would agree or not. You mentioned being frugality, as if it were a detriment. I looked it up on the Internet and here’s what I found:

“Common strategies of frugality include the reduction of waste, curbing costly habits, suppressing instant gratification by means of fiscal self-restraint, seeking efficiency, avoiding traps, defying expensive social norms, embracing cost-free options, using barter, and staying well-informed about local circumstances and both market and product/service realities. Frugal living is generally for people who want to cut expenses, have more money, and get the most they possibly can from their money.” (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frugality)

It seems to me, being frugal is just good fiscal sense. It seems to me it doesn’t go against creating wealth. In fact, it seems to me it goes hand-in-hand with creating wealth.

Now, I also see the possibility of turning frugality into stinginess or miserliness. (I believe Wattles says, in this regard, “You do not have to drive sharp bargains.”) But being frugal, whether you’re running a business, or already a multi-millionaire, or simply attempting to manage a budget for your living,… being frugal just seems to me to make good sense. If you were a multi-millionaire and were not frugal you could easily go broke (as we know some sport stars, famous musicians and actors, and many lottery winners have done).

Now, I know it sometimes SEEMS that rich people spend wantonly, but I recall an incident that seemed to put this in the proper perspective. I think it was about a famous actor, who was once chastized by someone for buying a $10,000 cigarette lighter. (I don’t even know if he smoked. He simply liked it.) But then, an editorial was written about it, and the author worked it out and stated, it would be the equivalent of someone with a $40K per year salary spending, I think it was ten dollars.

I work for a multi-billion dollar corporation, and we are often told to keep in mind guidelines that seem to fit the definition of frugality above. But, we also get free lunches or quarterly or annual outings, bonuses, etc.

Just thought it worth mentioning.

I’m curious what others will say.

Phil

Hello Phil, and thank you for your warm welcome.

Firstly in regard to the definition of 'frugality' which you have posted, I would agree with that definition, having also just looked it up in the Oxford Dictionary and accept that I have perhaps used it out of context.
However, I would like to point out here that there are differences in perspectives when being frugal in the context of millions of dollars, and being frugal in the sense of having to live from week to week. The week to week living engenders struggle, deprivation and gradually, a sense of lack, which can be difficult to realise when one becomes used to living too long under such circumstances. I should have explained this better in my previous posting.
As I also mentioned in my previous post,the words and writings of Wattle in TSOGR gelled with me after just one reading, which helped me to realise the real lack that existed in my life.
I can be rich, I can be wealthy, I can travel wherever I desire, whenever I desire. I can have anything I want, I just never realised it, till I read TSOGR. I have been living a life of lack, because of my thinking and my thoughts. No more! I want abundance in my life.

I hope I have not gone on too long here or gone totally off the topic I was replying to.

Thank you for the correction Phil.

I AM READY! I AM WILLING!

Andrew

Hello Andrew,

Welcome to the forum and to the wonderful world of SOGR and PG

I understood you perfectly on both posts. I think there are two meanings of frugality.

A) spending as little as possible because of fear
B) spending as little as possible because of the inner wealth of knowing you don't have to prove to your neighbours that you are rich / living in the abundance of knowing you can attract anything you desire.

and SOGR / PG are helpful guides on the journey from A to B. The difference is not so much in the actions or choices but in the thoughts and feelings behind them.

Looks like you are well on your way. Congratulations

God bless you,

Caroline
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Welcome Andrew!

I am so excited for you! When I first read SOGR, I too "gelled" with it. It just feels so right, doesn't it?

And don't worry about the process ahead.
You wrote:
"Naturally, I do not presume that implementation of the "certain way" will be as easy, as like everybody else, I will need to alter and change a lifetime of habits, and moreso, my way of thinking."

I think you were showing a wonderful willingness to learn and change there. But really, if you truly get these principles, the whole process WILL be easy. It's so easy, you wonder why you didn't get it before!

Again, welcome. I look forward to reading more of you SOGR experiences and successes!

Love and Blessings,
Rachel

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:

Now, I know it sometimes SEEMS that rich people spend wantonly, but I recall an incident that seemed to put this in the proper perspective. I think it was about a famous actor, who was once chastised by someone for buying a $10,000 cigarette lighter. (I don’t even know if he smoked. He simply liked it.) But then, an editorial was written about it, and the author worked it out and stated, it would be the equivalent of someone with a $40K per year salary spending, I think it was ten dollars.

Phil

Thanks for pointing that out Phil. That was an aha moment for me. It's a whole entire different perspective for sure.

I read recently that PDiddy bought his son his first car for $360,000 and there has been quite an uproar about it. No amount of money would ever entice me to do that, because I have things as a parent I want to teach my children.

But he was pretty taken aback by the interviewers questioning of him about it. His basic response was, "I can do whatever I want with my money, and it doesn't matter what anyone thinks." And that is the truth of the matter.

I don't think it is wise (but my opinion does not matter to him for sure) and would not do that myself, but it really may be a drop in the bucket to him. Interesting.

Dawn,

I hope you are not teaching your children a lesson of lack?

Love and Blessings,
Rachel

Hello Rachel.

Re: your quote, "I hope you are not teaching your children a lesson of lack".
I can't help thinking that perhaps in this instance, the definition of 'frugality' as provided earlier by Phil has great relevance to this situation, example-possibly and probably millions of $$$ for weekly expenses, but highly unlikely a week to week existence.
I have two older sons; a 22 & 23 year old (plus 2 younger children)but I doubt that I would buy them cars, without them understanding the ethics of work, the value of money, and the reality of our terrestrial world, and never mind the universal perspectives (for now) outlined by Mr. Wattle in TSOGR.

Despite my newness to TSOGR programme, I would consider that my 2 eldest sons would not be ready for a "quantum" leap of the mind that I believe is required for this course, and therefore should learn and understand at least the requisites of paying their own way in our earthly world; ex: power, rent, food, hire purchases- (car,household appliances,etc...)?
(Man, am I promoting lack again?)
My utmost regards and respects to all who have responded to my introduction (Greetings) Anaru, and if there is one thing I would like to say, it is this; I appreciate the words you have written here, but more importantly I express thanks and gratitude for the thoughts behind your words.

See you all in the next forum?

I AM READY! I AM WILLING!

Blessings

Andrew

quote:

I read recently that PDiddy bought his son his first car for $360,000 and there has been quite an uproar about it. No amount of money would ever entice me to do that, because I have things as a parent I want to teach my children.

What are some of those things you'd want to teach them?

I hadn't heard this story before, but it occurs to me that ONE lesson that COULD be learned by the son is that the things you desire CAN come to you easily, abundantly, and without struggle or "hard work."

quote:

Originally posted by Anaru:
Despite my newness to TSOGR programme, I would consider that my 2 eldest sons would not be ready for a "quantum" leap of the mind that I believe is required for this course, and therefore should learn and understand at least the requisites of paying their own way in our earthly world; ex: power, rent, food, hire purchases- (car,household appliances,etc...)?

On the contrary, Andrew, I think that younger people accept this sort of teaching MUCH more easily than we do! That is unless we pound the idea of lack into them the way our parents did to us. In that case it will be exactly as hard for them as it is for you. (No offense to our parents, they didn't know!)

Of course we think we are teaching them "frugality" "responsibility" and other "grown up" attitudes. I'm starting to think they're all just euphemisms for a belief in lack. Kids naturally want to have and do everything. This is the divine spirit in them reaching out to experience the world. We are not helping them by teaching them that they can't or shouldn't want that.

If you believe that giving your child a car means that you have to work harder and give up things that you want in order him to have it. Then you haven't fully understood the lesson of SOGR.

Teaching children not to be needlessly wasteful, to take care of their things, to have patience, to love and forgive themselves and others, AND that the universe is abundantly theirs seem like good lessons to me.

I want my daughter to have a safe car to drive when she is old enough. I don't care how that goal is achieved. She can earn the money herself, I can buy it, it can fall from the sky -- it doesn't matter at all. I do want her to know how to drive safely, to find her way home from wherever she is, to have enough gas to do what she wants, and for the car to be properly insured and in good repair. As long as she learns those lessons, it is not necessary for her to "work hard" or struggle in any way, any more than it is necessary for me to work hard or struggle for what I want.

Remember that Wally says that the Science of Getting Rich is the most fundamental skill. If I teach THAT to my kids, then they really can do whatever they want and they will NEVER have to experience lack.

Love and Blessings,
Rachel

PS: They also won't have to rely on me to support them.

Rachel

quote:

Originally posted by Rebecca:

What are some of those things you'd want to teach them?

I hadn't heard this story before, but it occurs to me that ONE lesson that COULD be learned by the son is that the things you desire CAN come to you easily, abundantly, and without struggle or "hard work."

Well Rebecca, I would want to teach them that they can have anything that they desire. That does not mean it will come by MY giving it to them. I am teaching them that with God, ALL things are possible. And in my more infrequent not so strong moments, they are now reflecting it back to me.

I am teaching them to think positively, speak kindly, let others deal with their own problems, to have faith in God, to act on that faith, that all things will work for their good, and dozens of similar things.

I can and will do a better job of letting them know they are powerful enough to provide themselves with anything they want.

quote:

Originally posted by azsunbeam:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rachel:
Dawn,

I hope you are not teaching your children a lesson of lack?

Love and Blessings,
Rachel

Nope, (I'm surprised you would think I would) but nothing can make me believe or accept that it is a bright idea to give a child that kind of gift without their own greatness being a part of it. (Well, unless they earned/attracted it themselves) Which may bring my own limitations, but I'll just have to deal with that.

Quote: Originally posted by Rachel.
----------------------------
"On the contrary, Andrew, I think that younger people accept this sort of teaching MUCH more easily than we do! That is unless we pound the idea of lack into them the way our parents did to us. In that case it will be exactly as hard for them as it is for you. (No offense to our parents, they didn't know!)"

"Of course we think we are teaching them "frugality" "responsibility" and other "grown up" attitudes. I'm starting to think they're all just euphemisms for a belief in lack. Kids naturally want to have and do everything. This is the divine spirit in them reaching out to experience the world. We are not helping them by teaching them that they can't or shouldn't want that."

"If you believe that giving your child a car means that you have to work harder and give up things that you want in order him to have it. Then you haven't fully understood the lesson of SOGR."
----------------------------------

Hi

Didn't expect to be back on this thread, but the comments coming through are very intriguing and thought provoking.

Rachel, your quote "younger people accept this sort of teaching MUCH more easily than we do! That is unless we pound the idea of lack into them the way our parents did to us"... and: "we think we are teaching them "frugality" "responsibility" and other "grown up" attitudes. I'm starting to think they're all just euphemisms for a belief in lack".

What a great eye-opening AHA statement for me to read, thank you.

Alas, as for giving him a car, that thought never crossed my mind at all.
Why not you may ask?
Ok, two reasons. One is based on thinking lack, (don't have the car/cash to give him) and the other is based on "teaching them "frugality"..,ect, ect, which, if I were to accept your statement, that they're "just euphemisms for a belief in lack", then, I'm thinking lack. Again!

Ok, cool, I got it.

Of course, like all parents, I still want to help and support my children in some way, even after they've left home. The question being, how.

"Kids naturally want to have and do everything. This is the divine spirit in them reaching out to experience the world".

"that the universe is abundantly theirs seem like good lessons to me."

"the Science of Getting Rich is the most fundamental skill. If I teach THAT to my kids, then they really can do whatever they want and they will NEVER have to experience lack."

Ok Rachel, cool. I got it! I got it! Thanks.

Now, if I can teach this to my kids, hmmmm....

I AM READY! I AM WILLING!

Blessings
Andrew

Interesting thread. Today is our daughter's 10th birthday. Her old bicycle was much too small, but she still hadn't learned to ride it without the training wheels (those came off last fall) due to some special challenges that she has. A few months ago, Mark (Mr. Excitement on these forums for those who haven't met him yet) told her that she couldn't have a new bike until she learned to ride the old one. Well, on Easter Sunday, my mom called us outside because our daughter was just sailing up and down the street on her bike! Now, we had a dilemma! With a birthday coming up, we needed to come up with a bicycle or we were going to have a sorely disappointed little girl.

After coming across SOGR and starting to learn the principles, I told her one day to start thinking about the bicycle that she wanted (planting a seed). She had already told me she wanted a purple bike with a water bottle carrier. I don't know what else she wanted, but trying to find a purple bike with caliper brakes (what she was used to) proved to be a difficult challenge!

We finally settled on one that was purple, blue and yellow with butterflies on it. Now, she would have absolutely loved the Hannah Montana bike I found online, but that was more money than we wanted to spend. We also wanted something that she wouldn't outgrow so fast. I have no intentions of telling her about the HM bike!

So, I had found this bike a couple of weeks ago online at KMart. The closest KMart to us is an hour away. I didn't notice that the price was a sale price. When I went back and looked later, the price was $15 higher. Ugh! With shipping, that made it about the same as the HM bike (which was all purple, btw). It would be cheaper to drive to the store and pick it up if they had it than to pay the shipping.

Here's the good part! I called the store on Tuesday and they did have it in stock. I asked the price and was told the same price I had seen it for online originally! It was a sale price good through Saturday. We decided to make the drive, but couldn't go until Thursday. Mark called to double-check that they still had one before going so far and was told they had one left which they set aside for us. The price was still the same. We had talked to two different people.

My mom had wanted to buy reflectors for it, but it came with reflectors so she agreed to buy the water bottle carrier. When we got to the checkout, they gave me a higher price. Come to find out, both people had given us a sale price over the phone that was no longer good! We got it for the sale price and we have a very happy 10-yr-old!

Now, how much of that lesson soaked in, I don't know (she doesn't know about the price yet) but like I said, I at least planted a seed. I think we should do our best to fulfill reasonable requests from our kids (I would have serious concerns about buying her a motorcycle, but would definitely want to do a car when she is old enough) and apply SOGR principles to help us do it, thereby teaching them SOGR, too!

Oh man I love this post so much in it and Welcome Anaru its always fantastic to se a fellow Kiwi in TSOGR

I read this whole tread and think all the replies are amazing, I love it when treads can apply to me as well and teach me to think and remember to practice SOGR as my life depends on it because it does,

I love they gentle way the mind opens and accepts truth easily and SOGR really does make life easier, and bring the fun back into challenges.

Recently I found it is easy to be grumpy but and just as easy to stop being grumpy and pick myself up,

We have been frugal too but the explanation summed this up so well and now I know it is teaching me how to handle wealth for it is coming.

I can feel my heart swell more often now and it puts a smile on my face.

I was flagging and wondering why I felt stagnant today as nothing SEEMED to be going my way,

I reminded myself it only seems like that today, as I do not know all the workings going on on my behalf, As soon as I decided to trust that things are working for me even if I cant see or know how. Right then sure enough I get a confirmation that things are working for me, as another pearl dropped in my lap for a free advertising opportunity for a whole month which is exactly what I need for my business right now. I have gratefully accepted. and have heartfelt thanks to SOGR the formless and to this thread for getting me on track.

Karen

Kia ora Karen

Great to hear from you.
Glad you got something out of this thread, and yes, I know what you mean about the postings in these forums.
There are some fabulous minds on here, and I am rapt that they are willing to share.

May the formless be with you.

I AM READY! I AM WILLING!

Blessings
Andrew

Anaru:,
I am thrilled that what I wrote was useful to you. Thank you for posting your thoughts and letting me know your response!

Betty,
What a great example of teaching kids how to use SOGR! I don't think your daughter really needs to know all the ins and outs of how she got the bike. Just let her enjoy it and ask her how close it is to her vision. (You've probably done that already, actually.)

Love and blessings!
Rachel

quote:

Originally posted by Rachel:
Betty,
What a great example of teaching kids how to use SOGR! I don't think your daughter really needs to know all the ins and outs of how she got the bike. Just let her enjoy it and ask her how close it is to her vision. (You've probably done that already, actually.)

Love and blessings!
Rachel

You are right, Rachel! I did ask her. She told me the bike was just what she had pictured, including the butterflies! Now, I kind of wonder about that, but I will never actually know because one of her unique challenges is being able to put her thoughts into words. So, I will just take her word for it and trust that it will be a lesson that will stick with her!

quote:

Originally posted by Dream Achiever:
Now, I kind of wonder about that, but I will never actually know because one of her unique challenges is being able to put her thoughts into words. So, I will just take her word for it and trust that it will be a lesson that will stick with her!

I'm curious about this. How does she prefer to express her thoughts? My daughter likes to draw pictures. What does your daughter like to do?

Love and blessings (and butterflies!),
Rachel