I come from a Christian background. My father was a Presbyterian minister here in Canada and I have always been active in the church. Trying to reconcile what I was reading in Mr. Wattles book, with the heart of my Christian "belief" system was a struggle at first, but what I was reading made so much sense.

I knew that I would not be able to give myself over to this new way of thinking until I had re-examined my old way of thinking and found out where one or the other just didn't stand up to scrutiny. It has been one of the most freeing experiences of my life.

I have been slowing reviewing each of the old standbys that church theology has used to back up their claim that we should be "satisfied" with what God has given us and not strive for more ... that "money" is the root of all evil ... or even for the more accurate Bible quoter "The love of money is the root of all evil."

I would love to be in a group with people who have either discovered TRUTHS about their Christian teachings and especially people who are struggling with their Christian belief system.
I am hoping that others who are working through the same difficulties may have found answers that we are still struggling with.

Personally ... I'm still having a little difficulty with "the rich man, the camel, and the eye of the needle" teaching. I truly believe that God is not displeased with my attempts to become rich as long as I don't fall into the competitive mode and as long as I remain grateful, recognizing from whom all these blessings ultimately originate.I'd love to hear your input.

I'm already seeing some amazing results from this course. Some of the most dramatic actually felt a little unpleasant at first and I might have been tempted to called them "BAD", but the blessing was not had to see. It's like trying to wrap a bowling ball in ugly wrapping paper ... it's hard to disguise the good beneath.

I abandoned organized religion, especially the Christian church a long time ago. What I found was that the operators of the church, clergy, for lack of a better word, subverted the original teachings of Jesus-the-Christ for their own purposes. For example, I think that the concept of everybody being rich would not have sat well for the Church for most of the last 2000 years. People have always looked to the Church for sanctuary. If everyone were rich, then they would'nt need the Church.

Anyway, my opinion is that there is nothing in conflict between Jesus-the-Christ's teachings and SOGR. I think they are very complementary. That said, if you can let go of the Church created dogma and listen to your heart of hearts, the lessons of Rebecca's SOGR course will unfold naturally. Keep on...

Dusty

quote:

---

Originally posted by Donna:

Personally ... I'm still having a little difficulty with "the rich man, the camel, and the eye of the needle" teaching. I truly believe that God is not displeased with my attempts to become rich as long as I don't fall into the competitive mode and as long as I remain grateful, recognizing from whom all these blessings ultimately originate.I'd love to hear your input.

I'm already seeing some amazing results from this course. Some of the most dramatic actually felt a little unpleasant at first and I might have been tempted to called them "BAD", but the blessing was not had to see. It's like trying to wrap a bowling ball in ugly wrapping paper ... it's hard to disguise the good beneath.

---

Donna, I think it's interesting to note that Jesus didn't say it's IMPOSSIBLE for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, he just said it's easier for camel to go through the eye of a needle!

And one reason that could be so is that some people who have been blessed with riches in the outer, physical world are unaware of the SOURCE of those riches. Rather than seeing their finances as a channel of God's abundance (by whatever name), they think THAT's the source.

(Of course, whether we currently have plenty in our finances or not, we can tend to do exactly this same thing in other areas.)

Jesus also said the Kingdom of Heaven is within you, and I think that's a really important distinction. Perhaps he was saying that if we begin to rely too much on *things* in the outer, physical world, it is more difficult for us to go within -- into that Kingdom of Heaven which is the world of the formless, the world of spirit, thought, feeling, the world of cause where everything begins.

Just some food for thought!

Many blessings, and, of course--
EXPECT Success!
Rebecca

Hi Donna

I understand where you're coming from. I too am still trying to resolve "conflict" between SOGR and my Christian upbringing.

I really don't want to make a mistake in what I think are the most important issues of life.

I'm also looking for answers and would be glad to be part of your group exploring this issue.

God Bless

Robin

Donna,

I know where you are coming from. I grew up Catholic and had many struggles with what I was being taught. I eventually came to Dusty's conclusion that the leaders of that church were subverting the Word for their own purposes. I, too basically walked away from that religion, but am still a Christian and now attend a non-denominational church that teaches from the Bible, not some leader.

I,too have been looking at how SOGR and the teachings of the Bible fit together and so far haven't found any real conflicts, other than those from "false" teachings. The LOVE of money is the root of all evil (or putting money before GOD), not money itself. Jesus did say that it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. But, the next line says that "with God all things are possible."

In fact, if you look at that part of the Bible, you find out that the apostles were shocked when Jesus said that, because most of them were wealthy business owners before they followed Jesus. I think the two stories go together. If you put your faith in God you can have both - money and ultimate salvation. (Creative method)But, if you follow money without God, it will lead to your destruction. (Competitive method)

Look at most of the characters in the Bible - Soloman, David, Abraham, Jacob, the Apostles - they were all wealthy. There is nothing wrong with being wealthy. In fact, it is a better testament to God that a Godly person is wealthy, rather than poor. A person of means gives a better example to others than a person in poverty - people are more likely to respect and listen to him (or her). And, a wealthy person can give what he has to help others (casting your bread upon the waters). What can a poor person give?

Anyway, I can go on and on, so if you want to start up a group to explore Christianity and SOGR, I'd love to be a member. I'd even help to set it up if you'd like.

As it says on ALL our money - "I God We Trust"

Richard

Hello Donna,

Thank you for sharing in this forum such an important concern. I am a Christian and believe in Jesus Christ. At first SOGR did challenge my Christian belief. But then, as I continued to read, I realized that Jesus is the manifestation of the Father. Jesus is my example of what love, desire, purpose, clear mental picture and power is. It wasn't clear to me until I started this course. Knowing what I know of Jesus and the Father, it is easier for me to accept that I can be the creator of my destiny because I believe what Jesus told His disciples as He was leaving. He told them that they would not be left alone that He would send the Holy Spirit. And, this Holy Spirit (call it formless substance if you like) would be available to to make clear that which is not. The Holy Spirit has always been since the beginning of time. Jesus is giving us what He had that gave Him that divine power. That power in deep within us. It's not contrary to our christian belief. It is the most important part. I believe in a God that created us to enjoy all that He has created on this earth. We don't have to compete for anything we want because God gives us what we desire if we only ask. If we don't get it it's because we haven't asked correctly. We ask and BELIEVE that we will get what we ask for and, as Jesus always did just before the getting what He asked the Father for, he would say thank you. Isn't that absolutely marvelous? Gratitude is not a hard thing for me to understand or do, I always thank God for everything because that is what Jesus did.

Wishing you many blessings.

Evelyn

Hi all,

I appreciate the comments given thus far on this subject. Donna, I too have had a long struggle with wwealth and my Christian teaching.
A group for us may be very helpful. I would surely be interested.
I'm convienced there is nothing wrong with wealth, I'm just having to internalize that belief by replacing the old internalization of woe be to the rich.
The eye of the needle in the Bible parrable is refering to the night gate merchants would have to enter through after the main gates were closed for the night. They were much smaller to prevent marauders from quickly entering the city at night. For a camel to go through, it had to be unloaded and made to get on its knees to get through the eye. Then the goods would have to be passed through and the camel reloaded to go to its destination. It was not impossible, just difficult. The meaning Jesus was giving, I believe, was that the wealthy that were trusting in their own ability and would not bow or humble themselves to God would not enter the kingdom just as the camel that would not get down would not get into the city through the eye of the needle.
There are many passages of the Bible that I believe have been misunderstood by many mainstream "Christian" practicioners. Let's learn together and find the truth while getting rich and heading for the kingdom.

Looking forward,

Benny

Hi Benny,

Thank you for the explanation of the camel and the eye of the needle. Very clear and true.

Yes, let's continue to learn together and find the truth and along the way get rich, always keeping in mind gratitude at all times.

Many blessings to you all,

Evelyn

What splendid thoughts. Not too long ago I read the book "The Prayer of Jabez" and it is about asking and receiving. It goes: " Oh, that You would bless me indeed (a lot), and enlarge my territory (invesements, etc.) that Your hand would be with me, and that You would keep me from evil, that I may not cause pain!" And his wish was granted.

It also states in there that we don't get the things we want, because we DON'T ask!

Wishing everyone much SUCCESS, HEALTH and WEALTH!

If you live in Texas or Kansas....are you
calling your friends and relatives for free? Send an e-mail to find out more.

This one is a 'biggie' for lots of us I suspect. I see SOGR as the culmination of all my searching. It is the first Do-it-yourself manual on how to actually take the Bible in it's entirety and make some sense out of it. If you look carefully at the progression of steps Mr Wattles takes us thru ( and I did this 2 days ago so it's still fresh) there is no way this stuff is going to work for us without the cultivation of a healthy spirit...Evelyn's Holy Spirit, if you like.Having said that, I'm all for ditching titles that get in the way for people and so I feel much more comfortable calling it the intelligent, creative stuff. For me, this piece of work puts all the spiritual values I have ever aspired to into a practical, hands on...very user friendly....manual. Think of the Lord's prayer...the lines
Thy Kingdom come
Thy will be done
ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.
As a seriously backslidden soul, I never thought I would come to contemplate those words again, yet after Mr Wattles work came to my attention, well, I've found myself not only saying the words but savouring the possibility that it just might be possible
cheers Ann

I have been reading all the posts and I have a thought that I would like to put forth. I notice all of you are Christians. But what about Jews or Buddists or Moslems? I am not real knowledgeable of the Jewish religion, but I am pretty sure they believe in having riches. The Jews have always encouraged their children to be educated, to have great jobs, and to have money. They teach from the Old Testament without Christ. I know nothing about the Moslems, but I do know one Buddist teaching is that you have a (to paraphrase) "hole in your pocket" if you do not have money. Some of the Buddists believe that Christ studied under a Buddist for awhile, since many of his teachings are identical to some of theirs. The lessons of Cause and Effect have been in most religions for a long time. They may not use those words, but I think it is understood by most, again to paraphrase, "If you ain't good, you're going to be punished." I have read nothing in SOGR that would be against God's will. If we have people from a variety of religions reading this, how about some input. I think we would find there are not too many differences.

Actually, there ae people taking this course from just about every religion or religious background you can think of, and people with none at all. Most of the people participating in this particular discussion would likely call themselves Christian, but not all of them.

I think we need to be careful about these religious labels, since they are so often used to create and widen division rather than acknowledge the unity that is truth -- that under all the labels and other "appearances" we are ALL part of that "formless."

In discussing specifically religious ideas here, I ask only that we not make assumptions about OTHER religions that are not our own experience and that we not put down or disrespect any tradition that is not our own. (And that can happen sometimes when we speak of a religion we formerly were part of. It's usually unintentional, I think, when we do this, but a big part of SOGR is that we're learning to become aware of just this kind of thing so that we consciously choose what we put out there.)

I'll give you an example. I was brought up in a very fundamentalist denomination (Christian), of which I am no longer a part. I used to jokingly say I'm a "recovering _____." I didn't mean any harm in it, because in fact, while I believe that particular denomination is causing quite a bit of harm to people, I also got quite a lot of good from it and I know the people who were my teachers and examples were doing the best they could by their own lights and operating in what they believed to be my best interest.

Recently someone gave me a better term for describing that, better than "recovering ____." Now I'm an "expanded _____." It's still light and amusing to me, but it does have more truth and it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings.

It seems to me that this topic might need to become a private topic, moved to that forum or move to the main discussion board, since it was originally posted as an invitation for a mastermind group of people interested in this topic but has turned into a discussion here on the Make a Connection forum.

Many blessings, and, of course--
EXPECT Success!
Rebecca

How do I become a member of this group? I was bought up Roman Catholic & think it would be great to share information & experiences regarding SOGR & this aspect.

My original intention with this post was to offer an invitation to form a Mastermind Group and to offer up a potential topic to begin.

The replies have been absolutely wonderful and I thank you all for your input. Although a debate on organized religion was not my original intent, I am still thankful for all of the entries. All of your opinions and viewpoints have given us much to consider.

I am now in the process of contacting those of you who seem to be like-minded and have indicated an interest in joining this mastermind group. If, within 24 hours of this post, you have not received anything from me, and wish to be included in this group, please place another post. I will continue to check this discussion forum for other people who would like to be included.

Rebecca I hope you will make regular contributions to our little group if you see us veering off track on anything. Your comments thus far have been most helpful and insightful and are much appreciated.

Gratefully,
Donna

Hi Donna,

Count me in.

Many blessings,

Evelyn

Hi all & mostly Rebecca,

What happens to the mastermind groups and conference room after we finish the course? Will we still have access to be able to continue this growth & be able to help one-another with this GREAT technology or will it just be like a main message board like before?

How long do we have to finish the life labs? Is there a timelimit for this course, like a cutoff date or not?
Also Rebecca when do we that missed being in a conference with you get the chance to hear some of your wisdom & lovely voice?
I hope there is more conference times coming up where I can meet & listen to you. I was at the last one but unfortunatelly you were unable to attend.
Has there been many conferences with you because I check the message board from you regularly & have only noticed one where you were present early in the course??

I would so love to hear from you Rebecca, well I do listen to your voice nearlly every day in my car on the SOGR tape but it would be nice to actually hear your wisdom in the conference room.

Godbless,

Katie

Hi Donna,
please count me in
Ann

Hi folks, finally i have decided to join in the fun. The discussions on cristian background is very interesting, albeit familiar. It does not really matter what background we have: it seems we are all part of a "scarcity-syndrom", or at least most of us. It is part of the "sponsoring mindset" that has been put in place for many ages.
This mindset has put us to sleep, believing that the best we can do is to survive ( what in Jonathan Livingston Seagul is called : the Code of the Flock). Plato uses the image of us living in a cave, that had projected shadows on the cavewall, caused by the sun shining in the cave and people walking in front of it. In time, we have come to believe that the shadow images are reality (my rendering of the parable). Jesus, ( and many others)were people who tried to tell us that the shadow is not the reality, and that there is a whole different world outside of the cave. Some of us believed, many did not.

It is only comparitively recently that more of us are beginning to wake up from this akward sleep.
SOGR is one of the wakey-wakey's. It has helped me enormously to look at money differently.

I'd also like to join a mastermind group.

bye for now.
Ben

Never forget, abundance is our birthright.

Donna, I would also like to join a Christian discussion group.

Denny

Dutchben,

I totally agree with your e-mail. I think you hit it on the head! Thankyou for contributing.