Question #8 deals with what you “do for a living.” I think I am being pulled in too many directions! Here is a list of jobs I have held during my life:

Office work (usually bottom of the totem pole type stuff) – mostly hated it!
Visual Merchandising – kind of liked it, but don’t think I want to do it again
Taught piano – it was ok… never could get enough students
Owned a florist shop – mostly loved it, but worked really long hours and didn’t make enough money to keep going
Pastor/associate minister position – mostly love it, but would prefer more long-term than what I have had and more money
Direct sales/network marketing – kind of a love/hate thing going on here as I love some parts of it, but dislike (hate is probably a little too strong) others
Real Estate – mostly loved it
Photography – do it more as a hobby, but have done some (very little) professional work

So, here is my dilemma… Mark and I have been involved with our current network marketing company for about 3 ½ years. We have done better than with any other company (I’ve been with several), but we still aren’t really “making a living” at it. Mark works as an auditor for the state. The job has a lot of flexibility and he is able to work at home a lot which is nice. Unfortunately, the pay is less than we really need.

I left real estate a couple of years ago because I felt that I needed to focus on homeschooling our “special needs” daughter. Business had dropped off, fees had gone up, and I was going to have to put a lot more time and money into it than I had been which would take time away from her and money that we didn’t have. (Maybe it would have been different if I had met Wally back then!) The thing I didn’t like about real estate was having to be available any time a client wanted to look at a house or write a contract. It could be anywhere from early morning to late night! At this point, our daughter is doing well at home, so I still need something flexible enough to bring in the extra money we need, but be available for her.

Mark and I are currently involved in ministry in our local church, but it is unpaid. That could change, and if structured right, could give us enough to make up for what I lost when I left real estate. Our desire is to have an income separate from ministry that would free us up to minister whenever/wherever we feel led. That is the primary reason for the network marketing business. We saw that as a way to develop that kind of income.

The things I like about network marketing are the people, doing in home presentations, and the conventions. What I really don’t like is making the calls that are necessary to set up the presentations and then closing the sale. I’ve been involved with several companies (Mark has been with one other – twice), but the one we are with now is the best one we have ever been with. We never really made any money with any of the previous companies (not sure why I have kept trying!) and only built any kind of downline with one, but we have made money with this company and do have the beginnings of a good downline. Unfortunately, they are all struggling, too. I’ve heard so many times that you attract people like yourself, so if I’m to continue doing this, I need to change!

So, I guess my question is… does this sound like something I need to continue doing or should I be looking at something else? I think if I could learn to enjoy the process of making the calls and closing the sales, I’d be in good shape!

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Originally posted by Dream Achiever:
Question #8 deals with what you “do for a living.” I think I am being pulled in too many directions! Here is a list of jobs I have held during my life:

I left real estate a couple of years ago because I felt that I needed to focus on homeschooling our “special needs” daughter. Business had dropped off, fees had gone up, and I was going to have to put a lot more time and money into it than I had been which would take time away from her and money that we didn’t have. (Maybe it would have been different if I had met Wally back then!) The thing I didn’t like about real estate was having to be available any time a client wanted to look at a house or write a contract. It could be anywhere from early morning to late night! At this point, our daughter is doing well at home, so I still need something flexible enough to bring in the extra money we need, but be available for her.

Betty, the more important thing to consider than what you do, is what you think about what you do.

I'm a realtor (moving toward retirement to do what I really love), so let me respond to this part. Would you really have to put a lot more time and money into it? Or is that a perception?

I can tell you that last year, "in these tough economic times", I halved my hours and doubled my income. Did we have some super duper surge in the housing market in my area? A big, fat nope! In fact, if anything we were worse off than most areas. We had just had huge layoffs at our mine that employs most people. The foreclosures were really starting to hit us in our part of Az, and on and on.

With SOGR and the forums, I came to know that it could be easy. And I just thought all the time, "the perfect buyers show up for my listings." And they did. Toward the fall, I decided I wanted to double my income that year, and by the beginning of December, I had.

I did not figure out the HOW, I did not do anything extra or special. I just changed what was going on in my head.

And having to be available at all times for clients. Consider that might also be a perception. I went into real estate so I could bend the hours around my family life. I go whenever I can. And I am available a lot of the time. But, if I have a busy week, and someone calls and wants to see a listing NOW, I just tell them, I have Wed at this time, or Friday at this time. Sorry I cannot go now.

I have finally realized the benefit of referring buyers to other agents in my office or who I trust. (I really prefer working with sellers, so much less hassle generally). It helps them, it helps me (because I still get a referral fee). But most agents would be so hyper about "these tough economic times" that they would be hyper anxious about giving away a paying client.

You know as well as I do, that just because someone is looking, doesn't mean they are buying, or have any money, or are qualified, or any number of things.

Begin examining your thoughts and ask if they are true. Was anyone else in your town making lots of money in real estate? Then you could too. Is anyone else in MLM making lots of money? Are they having to work hard? (Maybe, maybe not) Then you can too.

Wally says:

quote:

Getting rich is not a matter of environment, for if it were, all the people in certain neighborhoods would become wealthy. The people of one city would all be rich, while those of other towns would all be poor, or all the inhabitants of one state would roll in wealth, while those of an adjoining state would be
in poverty.

and...

But, aside from these general limitations, getting rich is not dependent upon your engaging in some particular business, but upon your learning to do things in a certain way. If you are now in business and anybody else in your locality is getting rich in the same business, while you are not getting rich, it is simply because you are not doing things in the same way that the other person is doing them.

Reread chapter 2. :-)

quote:

Begin examining your thoughts and ask if they are true. Was anyone else in your town making lots of money in real estate? Then you could too. Is anyone else in MLM making lots of money? Are they having to work hard? (Maybe, maybe not) Then you can too.

Wally says:

quote:

Getting rich is not a matter of environment, for if it were, all the people in certain neighborhoods would become wealthy. The people of one city would all be rich, while those of other towns would all be poor, or all the inhabitants of one state would roll in wealth, while those of an adjoining state would be
in poverty.

and...

But, aside from these general limitations, getting rich is not dependent upon your engaging in some particular business, but upon your learning to do things in a certain way. If you are now in business and anybody else in your locality is getting rich in the same business, while you are not getting rich, it is simply because you are not doing things in the same way that the other person is doing them.

Reread chapter 2. :-)

You know, Dawn, you've got a point there! I can look back now and realize that it really was just my perception. Of course, others were making money in real estate. I had done well up to that point. Unlike most, December had been my best month each year until that previous December. I had set goals and had initially achieved them and even exceeded them. They were modest goals, but they were what I wanted at the time. Of course, we were always pushed to go for more so I would set higher goals, but I didn't achieve them. Maybe because it wasn't really what I wanted?

I had read a book about real estate that said you didn't have to be available all the time and could actually set your own hours, but that wasn't the "reality" that I experienced. Our broker frowned on us not being available. Of course, if we were out of town, we were to have an agreement with another associate in our office to handle things for us. There was a fear instilled in us that we would lose a sale if we didn't get the contract in right away. It was a very competitive market. Hmmmm... competitive vs. creative...

So, yeah... I'm sure you are right about perception. The fees had gone up some, but not really a lot. The real problem there was that they had restructured the way they were collected and I could no longer pay them the way I had been doing it. I did not really try to find another way. I was obviously not being creative!

And, MLM... yeah, I know people making money in it and some of them are in our area! Like I said, we've even made some since we've been with this company. I know that some people in this business, especially the high achievers, are using these principles whether they realize it or not. There just seems to have been some missing ingredient for me that I hope to discover through this course!

Off to reread chapter 2! Thanks, Dawn!!

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Originally posted by Dream Achiever:
I think if I could learn to enjoy the process of making the calls and closing the sales, I’d be in good shape!

I make calls and close sales every day in my business. It's lots of fun for me because I'm not afraid of it. I know that I'm only calling people because I believe I'm offering something that they want. I know that a close is just an opportunity for me to allow someone who wants to buy to do so. In both cases, I want whatever is best for the customer. There's a lot more to both procedures which I would be happy to share if you're interested. But the main thing is: you must always be doing what is best for the customer -- from their perspective -- not yours. When their needs are your focus, you no longer have any anxiety about their response. It's not about you. If they say no, that's fine! You know the science of getting rich and your success does not depend on what that person decides. But if your focus truly is on them, and they say no because you haven't adequately shown them the benefits, then you will not be afraid to keep trying until you are sure that your product is not for them. And believe it or not, when you have that attitude, customers really appreciate it! I have prospects that I call every week and they always say, "Thanks for calling, It's great to hear from you. Someday I'll come in and see you. Right now is still not a good time." etc. Sometimes people ask me to stop calling and I do. But usually, they don't mind because I never push or pressure them. I just care about them.

Anyway. Maybe what you're doing isn't your dream business. Maybe it could be. Just don't be afraid of calls & closes. They are your friends.

Love & Blessings!
Rachel

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Anyway. Maybe what you're doing isn't your dream business. Maybe it could be. Just don't be afraid of calls & closes. They are your friends.

Wow, Rachel! That's exactly the attitude I need to develop! Thanks for the excellent post. I need to read it several times and let it sink in.

And, yes, I would love to hear more about your procedures!

Oohh, a complement! And someone asking for advice -- thanks for the ego boost!

Here's a little more about my way of doing calls.
1) Always be sensitive to the prospect's situation. Start the conversation by clearly identifying yourself and your business name. Ask if it's a good time, do they have a minute etc, before launching into your speech.
2) Each type of prospect is different depending on how you came to be calling them.
a) Did they contact you first? These are easy because you know they already have some interest in what you have to offer. Remind them that they inquired and ask how you can help them.
b) Were they referred to you by someone else? Identify the reference and say that so and so thought you would be interested in _________. Ask if they are interested and really listen to the answer.
c) Is this a social acquaintance that you are prospecting out of the blue? These can be the scariest because we fear that we are "taking advantage" of a friendship. Don't worry. You're goal is to let them know about your new business and offer to give them more information if they are interested. Your goal is NOT to "sell them." It is to find out if they are interested and to let them know that you would appreciate them sending you business if they can.

Once you've obtained permission to talk about your product or service, ask a lot of questions. Your goal is now to find out as much as possible about your prospect so that you can give them something that they want or need. Your goal is still not to "sell them." In fact it never will be. Your goal should always, always be to find ways to make their life better through any means you have. Sometimes that will involve your business (hopefully a lot) but sometimes it involves giving away information or services that have nothing to do with your business. It's all good.

Okay, that's enough for one post. Let me know if this helps at all.

Love and Blessings,
Rachel

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Originally posted by Rachel:
Oohh, a complement! And someone asking for advice -- thanks for the ego boost!

Hehe! You're welcome! Glad I could provide it.

quote:

Once you've obtained permission to talk about your product or service, ask a lot of questions. Your goal is now to find out as much as possible about your prospect so that you can give them something that they want or need. Your goal is still not to "sell them." In fact it never will be. Your goal should always, always be to find ways to make their life better through any means you have. Sometimes that will involve your business (hopefully a lot) but sometimes it involves giving away information or services that have nothing to do with your business. It's all good.

Much of what you have said is what we are taught to do in our "system" of contacting people. (It is very, very rare that someone contacts us, although it has happened through our website.) It helps to hear it from another perspective.

This last paragraph, however, is something I need to think about. I think you've got some very valid points... I just have to figure out how I can work questions into the initial presentation. Most of the questions usually come when we are "closing the sale." We are supposedly "sharing" or "referring" but it often comes off to me too much like selling. I think that's what is bothering me! I would love to be able to share our opportunity with others without feeling like I was selling. I think that may be where a lot of our team is getting stuck, too, so I really do need to give this some serious thought.

Thanks for the input, Rachel! I think you might be on to something. I'll let you know how it works out.

Betty,

I'm so glad this helped you.

Regarding the questions: I definitely recommend writing the questions into your presentation. Without knowing your product, I can't give you much more than that.
I sell ballroom dance lessons. Here are the questions I ask:
Have you danced before? If so, what kind, where, have you had lessons, etc.
What kind of dancing are you most interested in -- or do you want to start with an overview?
What inspired you to learn how to dance? Do you have a special occasion coming up?
Do you have any friends or family who dance?
What kind of places do you hope to go once you learn?
How did you find out about us?

For me, these questions help me to understand what they expect or hope for from my service. That way I can tailor my recommendations to fit exactly that. Once I've offered them exactly what they want, it's just a matter of working out the price. Done!

Best of luck (oh, wait -- I no longer believe in luck.) Blessings!
Rachel

Great information, Rachel! Thanks.

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Regarding the questions: I definitely recommend writing the questions into your presentation. Without knowing your product, I can't give you much more than that.

I've been avoiding talking about "our product" because I certainly don't want to come across as trying to drum up business here (which is certainly not why I am here), but I don't know how to explain what has happened without sharing a little, so here goes.

We are Independent Marketing Directors (IMDs) for a membership-based company. It is unique among direct-selling companies which is one of the reasons it is somewhat awkward in asking for help. The membership opens the door to savings in a number of different areas through group buying power. You would think that, since we have saved a lot of money on both small purchases and major ones, that sharing it would be easy, but for me, it has not been... up 'til now.

So, after reading your posts, I thought, "What do I really want to happen?" I decided that I wanted it to flow naturally in conversation so that the person I am talking with would indicate interest in knowing more, whether I ask questions or not. For instance, if someone commented on our car, I could share about our savings which I have done in the past, but no one has really seemed interested in hearing more. Maybe that is because I have been in "selling" mode when I've done it and the other person sensed that. I don't know, but it's been rather puzzling to me.

As I drifted off to sleep last night, I was thinking about having someone do just what I described above at church this morning. Well, that didn't happen and I wasn't even thinking about it. We went to my sister-in-law's house for a barbecue after church to celebrate her youngest grandson's second birthday. I actually had injured my hand yesterday (don't ask... it's a long story but a good example of the importance of expressing gratitude, which I did, for everything because you never know what will happen even as a result of something that is often perceived as being bad) while working on the installation of some flooring that we had gotten. The injury was quite obvious today (looked worse than it is), so I was getting questioned about it. My sister-in-law and her daughter were in the kitchen, asking about my hand. It gave me an opportunity to talk about our new flooring with my niece! She didn't even know anything about it, so we showed her pictures I had posted on FaceBook and she was suitably impressed.

That led into a discussion of flooring for their house which they may need to sell soon due to job changes. (I did try to ask some questions but there were too many distractions.) She said they had been looking at laminate flooring (what we are installing) and were rather put off by the prices. We (Mark was there, too) were able to show her the price that we paid for the flooring and she indicated that she felt that was a really good price. We also shared about our savings on our car. Again, she was impressed. Mark told her we needed to share with them what we are doing and she agreed!

It wasn't until later that I realized what had happened! It just flowed in the conversation! This evening, we had a picnic at our church and were sitting with some of other IMDs (part of our team) who were sharing some of their own savings with us. They had shared some with another couple, but hadn't really gotten to the point of taking them through the "system". However, they knew of something they were looking for and the IMD had looked on our corporate website, found the item at a HUGE savings, and printed it out to show them which she proceeded to do at the first opportunity. That's about when it hit me that my vision was working not only for us, but for them, too! Now, how cool is that?

One more little tidbit before I end this lengthy post... my niece walked by our table and I stopped her and told her about their savings. She didn't seem very interested. I realized that I had stepped over into selling at that point! No more "selling"! I don't like it and I don't like the response I get!

Betty, if you have a website, you can post it in your "signature." That's allowed. See mine? Others have them too.

Thanks for the reminder, Dawn! I just did a quick signature when I got set up for the forums and didn't take the time to put in my website address. Off to do that now.

OK... is that better?

Sure is.

Betty, I'm so glad for you!! You see? Just having an attitude of service rather than sales is what did that. You now know everything I do.

Love and Blessings,
Rachel

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I realized that I had stepped over into selling at that point! No more "selling"! I don't like it and I don't like the response I get!

Here's my take on it:

Just as there is nothing wrong with money, there is nothing wrong with selling. In fact, nothing much happens out in the physical world without someone selling something -- products, services, ideas, ideologies.

There is, however, appropriate and inappropriate timing, methodology, and so on.

I'll also point out that when you have something to offer that you absolutely, 100% love and believe in, you never feel anything negative about offering it.

But if you're trying to convince yourself that you love it because you really want the MONEY that you think you'll get through selling it, then those negative feelings will be there -- and that's good, because that's your inner guidance letting you know you are out of alignment with your True Self.

quote:

Mark and I are currently involved in ministry in our local church, but it is unpaid. That could change, and if structured right, could give us enough to make up for what I lost when I left real estate. Our desire is to have an income separate from ministry that would free us up to minister whenever/wherever we feel led. That is the primary reason for the network marketing business. We saw that as a way to develop that kind of income.

Betty, I'm going to put on my "coach" hat and raise some questions here -- just some food for thought for you.

Why couldn't you have a ministry that paid you and paid you well? Why couldn't you have that "whenever/wherever [you] feel led?"

I ask because there is often this idea that people who do work of a spiritual nature shouldn't sully their hands and minds with that unspiritual MONEY stuff.

(Or that it's not even POSSIBLE to make a decent living -- let alone a DELICIOUS one! -- doing spiritual work.)

But money is as spiritual as we let it be. (There's quite a lot on this topic in the audio sessions and LifeLabs, actually.) Spiritual and material are just two sides of the same coin. Or, better, just two aspects of the same thing: Form and Formless. Money is "congealed energy" and can be used for any purpose we choose.

When we think that spiritual work should be unpaid, we throw up a bunch of limitations.

First, we are saying that some kinds of work are spiritual and others aren't. But truly, ANY work is -- or can be -- depending on our feelings about it, our intention and attitude.

Second, we tell people who feel naturally drawn to ministry (or the like) that they can't do what they LOVE and make a living, too. They'll have to do something else for money.

(But wait: I don't recall that Jesus continued doing carpentry after he took up his ministry -- and that's just the example that springs to mind first and that probably fits for you best anyway.)

This is very similar to what happens when some people let themselves get all judgmental and bent out of shape about what others "should" do with their money. For example, I was in Las Vegas once, marveling at the gorgeous flower and glass art displays in the Bellagio, when I overheard some people complaining about how "obscene" it was that anyone should have spent so much money on things like that.

But think about it! If no one used money for gorgeous things, then the people who LOVE creating gorgeous things would have to do something else to make their money. Continue this line of reasoning and pretty soon you have nothing BUT people doing jobs they don't love only to get the money so they can do what they DO love. Sounds like insanity to me!

I say all this only to suggest that perhaps you might go within and see what it feels like to imagine a thriving, prosperous ministry that allows you to be of service in the ways you most love and also experience abundance of EVERY sort in the process.

Well, I like the idea anyway!

Regarding selling.

When we had our printing business our unique selling proposition (USP) was "Printing, Copying and Graphic Design to Influence Your Clients and Your Profits". We didn't have a product that was an expense to our clients, but we had and investment; something that would bring them even more profits!

Also I guess that part of my CMI could be considered a ministry. I intend to be a Student and a Teacher for the rest of my life; my subuects are Peace, Health and Prosperity! And I expect to be making a lot of money doing that!

BTW; I also love the Art at the Bellagio; and the show O by Cirque de Solei. I'm not a gambeler but love going to Las Vegas to see all the art!

Thanks for the responses, everyone! Rachel, I really need to keep that idea of service uppermost in my mind! Tom, I think we have some things in common as I feel teaching is a part of my future and a good teacher must also be a good student!

Rebecca, you really know how to zap a person right where they live! First, in regard to selling... I really don't have a problem with selling, per se, but I guess what I was getting at is that I felt like I was sort of forcing it at the picnic. So much of the time, that is what I feel like I am doing and I really want to stop that. I was excited because of the kind of savings our friends had discovered both for themselves and for the other couple. My niece walked by and I thought it would just reinforce what we had talked about earlier. Her reaction seemed to say, "Oh, that's nice, but I don't really want to hear about it right now." Maybe I am just being overly sensitive to other people's reactions? I don't know, but I have to admit that I'm a little nervous about not having enough money to pay the bills! I know! I know! Wrong focus! I'm working on that!

You have some very, very good points about ministry as well. Food for thought, indeed! I'm going to have to let most of that sink in. Maybe I've been influenced a bit too much by people who criticize pastors of mega churches (kind of like the art at the Bellagio… I think I’d like to go there sometime)! LL 2 brought out some of my feelings about ministry and money, but maybe I need to dig a little deeper as your post has suggested some things I haven’t considered! I do think that my future ministry may not be as a pastor, but perhaps as an author and speaker/teacher. I think it comes down to a self-confidence issue. I actually was told a few months ago by someone at church that Mark and I (we have both written things for the services) needed to write a book. Writing has long been a dream of mine, but one that I have never entertained very seriously. Self-confidence, again! "Who wants to read what I write???" I knew as soon as I read SOGR that I wanted to write a book about faith. After all, that’s what SOGR really is, but it’s not a book that would appeal to a lot of the Christians that I know. (If they only knew!) I want to write one that will! There’s obviously a lot for me to learn in the process. Thanks for the insights!

And, I have to say that I like your idea, too!

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Originally posted by Rebecca:

quote:

Mark and I are currently involved in ministry in our local church, but it is unpaid. That could change, and if structured right, could give us enough to make up for what I lost when I left real estate. Our desire is to have an income separate from ministry that would free us up to minister whenever/wherever we feel led. That is the primary reason for the network marketing business. We saw that as a way to develop that kind of income.

Why couldn't you have a ministry that paid you and paid you well? Why couldn't you have that "whenever/wherever [you] feel led?"

I say all this only to suggest that perhaps you might go within and see what it feels like to imagine a thriving, prosperous ministry that allows you to be of service in the ways you most love and also experience abundance of EVERY sort in the process.

Well, I like the idea anyway!

Interesting events this evening. It was announced in an email that a retired pastor and his wife will be doing the jobs (and getting paid!) that Mark and I had thought we might be able to take on. It was quite a blow initially, but after a long talk with one of our associate pastors (the one we work most closely with), we found out that we actually have been given official titles... they just don't come with pay. But, we are a step closer and, although, the assoc. pastor indicated that there would never be a paid position for us at this church (not sure how he determines that!), we are at least more in the loop than before. Our duties are expanding some and there is always the possibility that another church somewhere will take notice and decide they want us. Or, our ministry could take a completely different turn! We certainly never expected to be where we are now!

Meanwhile, we need money so either it must come from some totally unexpected source or we must get our network marketing business to the point of producing an income that will fill the current need. More would be even better.