Lesson 8 suggests that scarcity and poverty are an appearance/illusion and not the truth. Not the truth?

I find this very difficult to understand and accept. With so much hardship and pain everywhere in the world, how is poverty any less a reality than wealth? Especially since both are created by thought according to SOGR.

This sounds extremely biased and illogical to me.

Does anyone care to explain? All comments are most welcome. Thanks!

quote:

how is poverty any less a reality than wealth?

I agree that the use of truth with a capital T for wealth implies that poverty is untruth...lol...with a capital U. I find truth a poor vocabulary choice at this point.

I think we aren't concerned so much about truth as we are of our own perception of reality and in this case, our own degree of wealth.

We can be very dualistic. Does light exist without dark? Wealth without poverty? We seem to perceive and define our existance based on contrast. It is just perception.

However, you are correct, that if we observe both states of finacial circumstance, it is not logical to call one truth and one untruth.

But you needn't consider yourself poor, or think of others poverty at great length.

One thing I am unable to do with any religion or philosophy is to attach myself to very strict docrine. While it is important to be open to the concepts, if the use of the word Truth feels wrong to me in this context, I feel it is important that I find a way to understand without compromising my own sense of reason and integrity.

Hope this helps....or stirs up enough confusion to warrant additional comments.

quote:

Originally posted by sjsearcher:

I find this very difficult to understand and accept. With so much hardship and pain everywhere in the world, how is poverty any less a reality than wealth? Especially since both are created by thought according to SOGR.

Mr. Wattles says, "To look upon the appearances of poverty will produce corresponding forms in your own mind, unless you hold to the truth
that there is no poverty; there is only abundance.

To think health when surrounded by the appearances of disease or to think riches when in the midst of the appearances of poverty requires power..."

I don't think Mr. Wattles is denying that there is poverty, rather that our mindset can be distorted when we look at poverty. That is to say, we are to believe that there is more than enough in the universe to feed and clothe everyone (I believe this), but because of competitive thinking, especially among leaders and governments, a message of scarcity creates poverty among the people.

So you look at poverty and you begin to think in your mind that there is scarcity. Thus, if you are to gain, then someone else MUST lose -- zero sum game, if you will. If that were the truth (scarcity), then we must move into the competitive mind and get ours before someone else gets it.

As we hold firm to the reality (TRUTH) that the universe has plenty for all, and then we teach others the same, we do far more to help the poor than looking at poverty and feeling sympathy. Again, Mr. Wattles says:

"You cannot help the poor in the least by knowing about (poverty), and the widespread knowledge of them does not tend at all to do away with poverty.

"What tends to do away with poverty is not the getting of pictures of poverty into your mind, but getting the pictures of wealth, abundance, and possibility into the minds of the poor."

Clearly, Mr. Wattles is acknowledging that there is poverty in the quote above, and he gives us the solution (TRUTH) to truly doing away with it, "getting the pictures of wealth, abundance, and possibility into the minds of the poor."

Our first step must be to master the TRUTH that our universe is abundant enough to meet EVERY person's needs ...and wants. We need to INSPIRE the poor out of their misery.

Mr. Wattles says it this way, "The poor do not need charity; they need inspiration. Charity only sends them a loaf of bread to keep them alive in their wretchedness... But inspiration can cause them to rise out of their misery. If you want to help the poor, demonstrate to them that they can become rich. Prove it by getting rich yourself."

If we are altered from our course of getting rich (by looking at poverty and then believing a LIE that the universe has limited supply), we will never become rich, and never inspire the poor that they can become rich.

Ultimately, I believe that the TRUTH that Mr. Wattles is referring to is that the universe is rich with plenty ...for ALL. The LIE is one of scarcity and limited supply.

Well, that's my take anyway.

God Bless,

Thom

Let me give you a personal example of health. I was first diagnosed with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia in April, 1999 at the age of 45. At the time, both my family doctor and oncologist concurred that, according to the progression stage of the condition and all the statistical information they had to back it up, I most likely wouldn't live to see my 60th birthday.

I have to tell you, my doctor's announcement came from left field - I wasn't feeling ill; I was just in for an annual routine check up. I went through all the usual gears that people do when first confronted with such news: disbelief, denial, etc.

One thing I am blessed with is a very strong, independent streak. From day one, my thought has always been, "I'll check out when I say it's time to check out!" For sure, I wasn't about to take my doctor's assessment as a 'death sentence'.

Still, all the independent research I've done on CLL concluded that it was, in fact, a slow but sure death. There was no known cure.

Around 2004, I came across this SOGR website and forum. Now I've been a student of personal development since the early 1970's. Yet, there was something about the simple, straightforward language of the book; maybe it was the camaraderie of the wonderful people on this forum, all asking the same questions; some finding and sharing their answers. For me, it has been the combination of both that made a HUGE impact on my life.

As you might guess, one of my applications was for health; not just better health, but A CURE! Mr. Wattles suggested that the problem many people have is that they ask for too little, believing that they can't have exactly what they want.

So I planted the idea of a 'cure' right up there with my belligerent attitude, "I'll check out when I say it's time to check out."

THAT'S IT.

I didn't obsess over it. I didn't make vision boards of health and vitality. Occasionally - VERY occasionally, I would run a movie in my head about walking out of the doctor's office, high-fiving everyone because I just received the news... I was CURED!

Silly fantasy, huh? Especially since ALL the evidence was against me.

Yes, I DID things a little differently, like being more vigilant about my diet, exercise and lifestyle. Still, I got sick...

This is where it gets good, so pay attention.

I had six rounds of chemo back in 2002 and enjoyed nearly seven years of remission. By the end of 2008 and for all of 2009, my lymph glands and nodes were growing grotesquely out of proportion. I was doing blood tests every three months and the counts were always within acceptable ranges. I asked my doctor, "If the blood counts are always so good, why are my lymph nodes so large?" The doctor was perplexed. He ordered a CT scan of my neck, chest and abdomen.

Upon seeing the CT scan results, he called me back to his office immediately and advised me to start another 6 rounds of chemo ASAP. There was an urgency in his voice and manor that I had never heard or seen before.

I only did three rounds of chemo before my immune system got flattened. I was open and vulnerable to every virus and infection and spent three weeks in the hospital at the end of 2009, barely surviving a near-death experience.

My doctor openly admitted that he missed some very important clues. Apparently the condition CLL has a twin flip-side called SLL. The blood cell counts he was monitoring were for CLL and they were always good. The indicators for SLL were deadly, but since he wasn't monitoring for those, I got sick... in a hurry!

My wife had totally lost her confidence in this doctor and asked that I seek a second opinion from the world renowned Princess Margaret Hospital, specializing in cancer.

After two months, my case was reviewed and I was accepted into the PMH program. I was interviewed for about 45 minutes and then the presiding doctor went over all the possible treatments, suggesting that since I didn't get all six rounds of chemo, my condition would start returning in less than a year and more than likely, I would NOT survive the next hit.

Yes, DEAD before age 58! THAT was the prognosis.

"However", this specialist said, saving this piece of information to the very end of our interview, "there is still one chance for a CURE."

I KID YOU NOT... this was the FIRST and ONLY doctor to EVER use that word when talking to me about my condition. My wife and I looked at each other and almost simultaneously asked the doctor to repeat and clarify what he just said.

He DID use the word CURE. He admitted that my window of opportunity was brief; that I would have to decide AND act within the next six months.

But now, I'm going for a CURE. Silly fantasy, huh?

And by the way, I was divorced in 2005 and married the woman of my dreams in 2008.

I declared personal bankruptcy in 2001 and still working on that financial independence. But what's that old song, "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad"... for now.

The point is, the impossible IS possible. It may take a while (I'm sure I could have manifested my results a lot faster) and often things seem to get worse - a LOT worse - before they get better. That's just the Universe shakin' and bakin' for you.

I wouldn't have had the CURE doctor unless I had that near-death experience that caused me to seek better care.

I wouldn't have had the woman of my dreams unless I went through that painful divorce.

Who knows what the financial future holds now that I'm free to choose another career?

Silly fantasies, huh?

All the best from Toronto,
Russ

My take on truth is that there is physical reality and then there is the non physical or spiritual truth. Clearly, SOGR tells us that the origin of our physical reality is from the spiritual/non physical dimension. In other words, the truth is that looking beyond the appearance of things, you will always find that whatever we find in our physical reality must first exist in our thoughts. Hence, to focus on riches is not to be mean or harsh to those in poverty, but to empower them with the certain way of thinking, so that they can also become rich.Poverty is an illusion because it is created my our thoughts of lack. Change those thoughts and our reality adjusts to what we think about over time.

There are millionaires who have been broke several times; but they have never been poor!

Not having money isn't a big deal for these people; they can always make more!

If we are the person that we want to be it is easy to do what we want to do and have what we want to have!

I spend every moment being grateful. It's very centering. It's amazing the beauty I see when I'm grateful, things I'm sure I wouldn't have noticed if I were listening to the negative voices in my head. Being grateful is the hub that allows me to forego certain mental behaviors. When I'm grateful, I don't criticize me or others, I don't allow tension because tension is fear and fear is a form of ungratefulness. When I am grateful, I slow down, I spend more time with my kids, my wife, strangers. When I am grateful, the world opens up for me to discover it. When I notice I might be slipping into a bad mood, I think about being grateful. Gratitude transforms my life on a daily basis. When I am grateful, I want to give my feeling of gratitude to everyone I meet. There might be poverty, but when I'm grateful, I give everyone the energy of hope. Gratitude transforms my life on a daily basis.

quote:

My take on truth is that there is physical reality and then there is the non physical or spiritual truth.

Kevin,

I think I know what you're implying,... that physical reality is actually limited, and spiritual reality is not.

The thing is, from what I understand the physicists are saying, physical reality is NOT limited. The Universe is INFINITELY large, AND each particle of each atom, of which everything physical in the Universe is made of, is INFINITELY small.

How does that 'tie in' with Wattles basically saying 'poverty is an illusiion' or unreal, or not TRUTH? It does, to me, because of how our senses perceive.

Our physical senses do not perceive the actual, REAL, TRUE nature of physical reality. Our physical senses perceive things as finite and limited. Our physical senses don't grasp the reality of the INFINITENESS of everything, large and also small.

Poverty is the result of perception. Most people have no clue they are perceiving incorrectly, much like most of humanity had no clue the Earth was not flat, or that the Sun didn't actually rise in the morning and fall at night.

When a person begins to understand wealth, they begin to perceive a very different reality than most people. Even on a more mundane level this can be discerned. For example, most people equate wealth with materiality. But look at the amount of 'material' that makes up a typical cell phone. Compare that to the amount of material that made up an old typical analog home phone (the kind with the dial that you stuck your finger in one of the holes and spun it around).

The new cell phone is materially less, but it is capable of much more. This came about because some people understood 'physical reality' very differently than those who equate materiality with wealth.

We know that intelligence, intuition and creativity are the 'unseen' elements that go into the creation of things like wealth, abundance and riches. But these things cannot be grasped by the physical senses. Yet they are absolutely real, and absolutely have more power than so called physical reality, expecially in terms of creating wealth.

So, poverty is the result of limited perception believed. And wealth is the result of people going beyond that perception, using intuition, intelligence and creativity (and FEELING).

Phil

Nicely said, Phil

quote:

I think I know what you're implying,... that physical reality is actually limited, and spiritual reality is not.

The thing is, from what I understand the physicists are saying, physical reality is NOT limited.

Correct me if I've misunderstood, Kevin, but it seems to me that you are NOT saying the physical world is "limited" but that it has "limits" (as discussed in one of the course sessions). In other words, out here in the physical world, things are not formless; they have boundaries, edges, limits in a PRACTICAL sense. That's just part of being in "form."

Once again, I have come here with personally relative questions in mind and found exactly the statements and answers I was looking for.
The past day or so was one of those peak anxiety times that can hit without warning, and my anxiety level shot through the roof. In the past, this would have been devastating to my moral being for quite some time, but this time I fell back upon the teachings of Mr. Wattles and quickly found myself recovering.
Funny, that at the peak of my panicked situation that I would recall Mr. Wattles relevant words, “To look upon the appearances of poverty will produce corresponding forms in your own mind, unless you hold to the truth that there is no poverty; there is only abundance.” At that moment, I immediately change my thought patterns back to the positive grateful ones that I practice daily, and the whole incident just seemed to dissipate around me.
Tonight I came here with this episode still fresh in my life, opened this particular forum first, and read all the right things that reinforced my beliefs in these teachings. I am now re-focused and SOGRing onward!
I wish to thank you all for again providing for me that which I was seeking.
Oh, I did wish to contribute one small thing to this discussion; for me, the most absolute truth that I have ever heard or read starts out like this, “There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe”

quote:

Correct me if I've misunderstood, Kevin, but it seems to me that you are NOT saying the physical world is "limited" but that it has "limits" (as discussed in one of the course sessions). In other words, out here in the physical world, things are not formless; they have boundaries, edges, limits in a PRACTICAL sense. That's just part of being in "form."

Yes you are correct Rebecca, I meant it that way.
Phil's post, though, gave me some interesting thoughts to mull over

quote:

Yes you are correct Rebecca, I meant it that way.
Phil's post, though, gave me some interesting thoughts to mull over

Kevin,

You’re so diplomatic,.. and I mean that in the most complimentary way. I imagine that skill serves you well. And, I'm very glad if something I shared was helpful to you.

In any case, I’ll stick with the gist of what I wrote. I think it’s an error of perception to separate Physical Reality from Spiritual Reality. I think they are just different aspects of the same thing, the physical being something like the ‘extension’ or ‘outpouring’ of spiritual reality (which, I think, is what you also said).

Consider this: How is physical reality limiting or limited, even in a ‘practical’ sense? What is ‘practical’? Is ‘practical’ what is ‘essential’? If it is, then, physical reality is unlimited because what we essentially want to experience is a good feeling; and how we feel does not come from physical reality.

It seems to me, each of our individual experience of physical reality is an extension of our inner ‘spiritual’ emotional, feeling reality. And, since that is so diverse, we see people with diverse experiences of physical reality. If that is so then, physical reality isn’t really limited; we are.**

**Well, no, it seems to me we actually aren't limited. But we believe we are, so we experience we are. (There I go talking to/with and countering myself again.)

Phil

quote:

How is physical reality limiting or limited, even in a ‘practical’ sense?

lLimited in a PRACTICAL sense in this way: things have edges.

The EDGES of my fingers -- their limits, boundaries -- are hitting the EDGES of the keys of this keyboard. That's all. Just in the PRACTICAL sense. It's all energy, all formless, too. But PRACTICALLY, edges are extremely useful!

quote:

In any case, I’ll stick with the gist of what I wrote. I think it’s an error of perception to separate Physical Reality from Spiritual Reality. I think they are just different aspects of the same thing, the physical being something like the ‘extension’ or ‘outpouring’ of spiritual reality (which, I think, is what you also said).

Hey Phil

Thanks for the compliments! You are right in many ways. We just kind of describe it differently. I see this physical reality versus spiritual reality more as a continuum...form to formless, formless to form, much like how Rebecca's PG course describes it. And it is really fun to think of it this way....you can fall off the edges if you are on a cliff.....but whether you survive the fall..well, that depends if you had your parachute on

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:

So, poverty is the result of limited perception believed. And wealth is the result of people going beyond that perception, using intuition, intelligence and creativity (and FEELING).

Phil

Wow! What if everyone believed it was natural to become a millionaire or a whateveraire?

quote:

Originally posted by Rebecca:

quote:

How is physical reality limiting or limited, even in a ‘practical’ sense?

Limited in a PRACTICAL sense in this way: things have edges.

The EDGES of my fingers -- their limits, boundaries -- are hitting the EDGES of the keys of this keyboard. That's all. Just in the PRACTICAL sense. It's all energy, all formless, too. But PRACTICALLY, edges are extremely useful!

LOL they sure are. Just imagine what would happen if all of me would go over this keyboard (being 70% water)

God bless you,

Caroline
My Gift To You: 50,000 Guaranteed Visitors To Your Site

quote:

Originally posted by azsunbeam:
Wow! What if everyone believed it was natural to become a millionaire or a whateveraire?

Dawn, it is natural for some people at least.

If it can happen within 1 person's life, it can also happen in any other person's life.

God bless you,

Caroline
My Gift To You: 50,000 Guaranteed Visitors To Your Site

quote:

Originally posted by Thom Lane:."

I don't think Mr. Wattles is denying that there is poverty, rather that our mindset can be distorted when we look at poverty. That is to say, we are to believe that there is more than enough in the universe to feed and clothe everyone (I believe this), but because of competitive thinking, especially among leaders and governments, a message of scarcity creates poverty among the people.

So you look at poverty and you begin to think in your mind that there is scarcity. Thus, if you are to gain, then someone else MUST lose -- zero sum game, if you will. If that were the truth (scarcity), then we must move into the competitive mind and get ours before someone else gets it.

As we hold firm to the reality (TRUTH) that the universe has plenty for all, and then we teach others the same, we do far more to help the poor than looking at poverty and feeling sympathy.

You put this so clearly Thom. Poverty is real, but it is based on the illusion of scarcity.

In reading it I had a vision of a little boy today struggling mightily to open a door. He was pulling. As soon as he tried pushing, his tiny self was able to open the door easily. Being poor is like being trapped behind that door. We're taught that we must struggle mightily and some of us will never succeed. But discovering SOGR is like learning to push. Suddenly, the door opens easily and we wonder why in the world we ever made it so hard!

That is why charity is counter productive. Not because it teaches people to be lazy, but because it feeds the illusion that they are trapped. When we learn to recognize abundance, poverty disappears.

Blessings!
Rachel