quote:

Originally posted by annievt:
In a way, I am less superficial than you because,...

So now we’re in a competition?

I’m not trying to argue with you, or compete to determine who is more or less superficial. (Interesting to me is, I now focus on taking care of myself, which years ago I thought was a superficial thing to do,…)

I’m trying to give you a different point of view, one that seems to work for me. If yours works for you then all’s fine. But if yours works for you, why do we have this thread?

Phil

i live in SE Alaska, one of the most beautiful places you would ever want to find. Because of the Northern latitude it is dark in the winter, and because we are coastal, it is cloudy, rainy, and drizzly often. A clear day is usually seen as pretty, spectacular, gorgeous. Let the clouds roll in and the mood can seem to drop. It can "seem" gloomy, etc. a couple of years ago I started really looking at the colors of subdued days.

What I discovered was a world of ethereal wonder. I discovered deep midnight blues in the surrounding mountains, enchanted silver low clouds, 100 kinds of gray, each achingly rich.

The days of different weather are not equal because each day has no equal. Learning to look at the landscape differently has made such a difference in how I handle winters here. It isn't looking for ingredients of a beautiful day anymore, but seeing the beauty that was there all along, but I had just mislabeled it.

My question, annievt, is why not form your opinions instead of letting them form you? Especially if they're denigrating you? Am I superior to consider 'ugly' an insulting reference to people, regardless of their physical appearance? Perhaps. I do find it a snobbish and insulting word. That's my opinion, and I won't revise it. You know why? Because according to that opinion, you, me and everyone else in the world is, at the very least, NOT ugly. It works FOR, not AGAINST. More life to all, less to none.

quote:

It isn't looking for ingredients of a beautiful day anymore, but seeing the beauty that was there all along, but I had just mislabeled it.

Thank you, Junoelle.

Phil. Of course its not a competition. Its just recognizing that every opinion makes us a "snob" about that which we are judging. Phil....I believe you recognize this and try not to. But wonderful and amazing and beautiful are judgements and opinions too.

And your last post brought us full circle back to the question of subconscious.

What part of me learned to not like looking at ugly? Was it the three year old who, when meeting grandma and grandpa for the first time screamed and cried at the repusliveness of their old age? Its not like my mom sat drilled me with nasty comments about old people. There was just some part of me that said yuk...and it stuck. What part of me is it stuck in?

What part of Luv tells her its wrong or unkind to use the U-word? Is it her true self, or is it something she was taught? Where did her subconscious programming come from that she judges that she judges the word ugly bad, and where does mine come from that I judge the physical attribute of ugly as bad?

Are natural reactions subconscious? Is conditioning subconscious?

The subconscious seems to be the control center so it would be useful to know what goes on there.

I understand my conscious thoughts are not changing things for me.

And it seems with the appearance of signs of aging, I might as well forget my life long dream of physical beauty. That thought brought tears to my eyes and makes me feel desolutely sad.

Now I get to be loved and accomplished...big deal

Oh...and compassionate.

quote:

quote:
It isn't looking for ingredients of a beautiful day anymore, but seeing the beauty that was there all along, but I had just mislabeled it.


Thank you, Junoelle.

Love & blessings, and, of course--
EXPECT Success!
Rebecca

Thank you, indeed!

K...so I have all these reminders on my Iphone these days like "I love what I am doing right now" and I love everything the way it is right now". They give me the warm fuzzies all day.

So now, in an effort to make an effort, I am including a reminder to "love who I am with right now". Trying.

PS..all weather is good weather

quote:

Originally posted by annievt:
Phil. Of course its not a competition.

Well, it sure seems to me you were making it out to be.

Btw, did I lose? Am I more superficial than you? And, if I lost, what did you win?

quote:

I understand my conscious thoughts are not changing things for me.

OK. So, what do you think WILL change things for you?

quote:

it seems with the appearance of signs of aging, I might as well forget my life long dream of physical beauty. That thought brought tears to my eyes and makes me feel desolutely sad.

So what?

Is feeling sad a bad thing? Is it an unwanted feeling?

From time to time, I enjoy experiencing a sad feeling. In fact, now that you mention it, I remember a couple times feeling intensely sad, and as I recall those experiences, I’m GLAD I had them. (I might now go ahead and create an intense sad feeling experience about another condition I want, that hasn’t panned out.)

Do you ever enjoy a sad feeling? Or do you absolutely not want to feel sad feelings?

Isn't it true that one of the things we enjoy from time to time is INTENSE FEELINGS, whether they are so-called 'good' or 'bad'?

Wouldn't it be interesting if you found out that you cling to your "life long dream of physical beauty" because you 'subconsciously' know that it can't be fulfilled, but that also you 'subconsciously' know that whenever you believe it can't be fulfilled you get this intense sad feeling, and the intense feeling is really the reason you have this "life long dream of physical beauty'?

Phil

quote:

Originally posted by annievt:
.. I have all these reminders on my Iphone these days like "I love what I am doing right now" and I love everything the way it is right now". They give me the warm fuzzies all day.

Isn’t it wonderful that you’ve found something that gives you good feelings all day?

quote:

So now, in an effort to make an effort, I am including a reminder to "love who I am with right now". Trying.

Here’s a couple thoughts, if you get ‘stumped’ with the “I love who I am right now” idea, try this. Try asking, and answering, the question, “How MIGHT I feel if I loved who I am right now?” You might get the feelings a little easier, than just saying the words, “I love who I am right now.” (Certain questions seem to have the power to help evoke feelings in us.)

Or, you might ask yourself, “How might I feel if I loved who I am right now?” and if you don’t get good feelings, you might get thoughts like, “Well, I’d feel happier. I’d like myself more. I might even feel delighted.” If you get thoughts like this, then ask yourself, “What would it feel like to feel happier right now? What would it feel like if I liked myself more? What does it feel like to feel delighted?” And let the ‘feeling’ come to you.

quote:

PS..all weather is good weather

But, it's also possible to make any weather bad weather. Isn't it possible to think badly of anything?

“There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.” -William Shakespeare

A key (to feeling good and creating a better life) seems to be in realizing that however we feel about anything is due to how we think about the thing, whatever it is.

We feel what we think. And,...

quote:

every opinion makes us a "snob" about that which we are judging.

I think that's a fair assessment. So I ask you, why not be a snob in a way that COMPLIMENTS you and everyone else?

This discussion reminds me of when I was a kid and intensely desired butterfly wings with which to flit around daintily. I eventually sadly resigned myself to being boring and mediocre, as I saw it, when they didn't sprout.

I find it all so funny now, in so many different ways. I wish this for you.

Phil. I said I would "love who I am WITH"...not "love who I am". The first felt good to say the first time. The second doesn't feel right at all...it makes me feel sick in my stomach....like I am telling a fib. Bad girl!

Phil I can't even imagine loving me. What would it feel like? Who knows?

quote:

Originally posted by annievt:
Phil I can't even imagine loving me. What would it feel like? Who knows?

What’s it like to love yourself? Well, let me see if I can give you my experience of it.

First of all, for me it’s easier to say, “I like myself.” Then, if you were to ask me why, I might say:

I like myself because I’m able to take care of myself pretty good. I like it that I’m pretty independent that way.

I like myself because I’ve managed to create some experiences I like, and some that I really like. So, I appreciate the fact that I’m having some experiences I like and I give myself some credit for creating or co-creating those experiences.

I like myself because I've been able to garner some kind attention from some attractive women.

I like myself because I can pretty routinely find something to say or do to make some people laugh.

I like it that I’m taking pretty good care of my body. And, I like how it feels to be in my body, where I can easily move it around, etc. I like it for that, and I give myself credit for helping to create this experience.

I like myself for figuring out how to get along with most people pretty easily and constructively (as in my day job).

I like myself for, at times, having the ability to communicate something that seems to help someone else.

Btw, let me explain what I mean by LOVING oneself. What is love anyway? I think, a practical way to define love is to simply see it as analogous to ‘value.’ In other words, when we ‘love’ something, we’re simply saying we ‘value’ the thing. And if we love something a LOT, we’re simply saying we value the thing a lot. So, if I say, “I love myself.” And you ask me what that’s like, I’m going to try to say how I VALUE myself, or what about me that I find is VALUABLE.

I love me for being able to create some experiences I like. (I value me, or the ability in me, that creates.)
I love me for the times I’m able to find value in experiences I don’t like.

I don’t know if this next thought goes to ‘loving oneself’ but another thing I value (love, appreciate, etc.) is the fact that I can give myself reasonable breaks. In other words, if I can’t work something out, or create something I want, I can ask myself if it seems ok to give myself a break, and then if it seems ok, to give myself a break, take a nap, meditate, etc., without beating myself up about it.

I guess I’m pretty easy on myself, and that’s something I value (e.g., love).

I love (e.g., value) the fact that I can pretty routinely take care of my things (my clothes, car, food needs, etc., bills).

Hmmm,… maybe it’s not important to ‘love oneself’ as much as it’s important to love (value, appreciate) things ABOUT you.

What ABOUT you – i.e., what things in your control – do you like?

Do you like the way you drive?
Do you like (e.g., appreciate, value, love) the fact that you can communicate with words?
Do you like that you can move your body around pretty easily? (Or would you rather not be able to do this?)
Do you love (e.g., value) your ability to get along with others?
Do you value (e.g., love) your ability to reframe or reevaluate another person’s ‘bad’ behavior so that you aren’t upset by it?
Do you value your resilience and ability to rethink matters?
Are you resourceful? Do you value this quality?

So now,… instead of trying to “love yourself” how about just make a list of things ABOUT you that you value (e.g., love)? And see if that makes you feel better about yourself.

Phil

I like that I pay my bills on time.

I like that I don't procrastinate a lot.

I like that I am so in love with outside.

I like that I am able to heal my back daily with ballet and stretching instead of drugs.

I love that I am a size 4 or 6 and have a very strong core....lol...but it is ugly!

I like that I won't let the homeless folks sleep in their own urine in the basement of the homeless shelter and that I always clean up for them which leads to....

I like that if I see something that needs done for others, I just do it. (Though I wonder if its any of my business....and I like that I am considerate enough to think that.)

I like that I make friends with the college kids at work so easily.

You mean stuff like that?

It does seem dull and inconsequential compared to the stuff I don't like. Ho hum...bills are paid. It does make life easier, but worth living? Nah. Now I do hate with gusto and passion. I like the passion and gusto part. I do not care for milk toast....so it has that going for it....probably why I hang onto it. At least I feel something.

I think that’s a good start.

Now, expand on it, in the direction you want to go.

You want to be wealthy, financially free, financially independent. And you’d love to accomplish these ends in a way that fits you, in a way you love, in a way that is a pleasure to you, right?

It seems to me, creating this kind of wealth hinges on a few keys. One: You find something you love to do. And you expand on it, without limitation. At first this may not seem like anything to do with money. (Oprah loved to talk to people, to get to know life from their point of view, and to try to help them. At an early age she loved reading about places and inspiring people. She dreamed of being a teacher, and a preacher. She learned at an early age how to speak in front of people and she loved the experience. She love being the center of attention. She also loved the idea of being on TV. Adam Sadler was the class clown. He loved to make people laugh. Wayne Dyer, from a very early age, loved to help people feel better. Esther Hicks simply loved feeling good and being happy. J.K. Rowling loved to write fantasies. She loved the whole process. She loved coming up with imaginary characters and putting them into fantastic scenarios and imagining where all that might lead. Tom Hanks loved movies and the idea of being an actor. 50 Cent loved the idea of becoming a famous at anything rich person. The Wright Brothers loved tinkering and inventing and the idea of creating a flying machine. Wilma Rudolph, stricken in childhood with a disease that immobolized her, came thru it and learned to walk, and then learned to run and LOVED it, becoming an Olympic World Record holder.)

Don’t know what you love to do? Well then, find something. Play around with ideas and life and see what you love doing or thinking about. And then, start playing with the ideas of it. Expand on it. Put it into different scenarios. Pretend seeing yourself doing, saying or being how you want to be. See this ‘Who-You-Want-To-Be’ person. What’s she doing? Who’s she spend her time with? Why? Who does she avoid? Why? She’s rich, financially free. What’s she doing, in that circumstance?

You said you hate with a passion, and enjoy the feeling because it's intense. Maybe you love to hate. Maybe this is something you can build on.

Would you still hate, if you were financially rich and free? If so, then this might be a passion of yours, that could be turned into something constructive (and wealth).

It's possible, knowing what you hate (or what you don't want) could lead you to know what you love (or do want). Then, it just becomes a matter of 'taking off the constraints' to having what one wants (changing or discarding the beliefs that make you feel weak or powerless) and developing the attitudes or beliefs that empower you.

I love the idea of creating a more wonderful life. I love the idea of having plenty of money.

I love the idea of having it easy and having plenty of time, or enjoying my time doing whatever it is I’m doing. And I seem to be getting more of this.

I love the idea of making a positive difference, in a way that suits me, and I love feeling good. But it seems to me, feeling good is not a static thing. What felt good to me yesterday or last year might not do it for me now. It seems to me, to experience more good feelings I have to keep expanding, growing, experiencing new things or things in a new way. But I’m drawn to the idea of experiencing more good feelings, so I’m constantly seeking out ways to do so. And it seems to be paying off,… not all at once maybe, but incrementally, and sometimes in surprising pleasant ways (unexpected raises, bonuses, attention from an attractive woman, spontaneous enjoyable conversations, a body I'm loving being in, etc.).

Phil

"Don’t know what you love to do? Well then, find something. Play around with ideas and life and see what you love doing or thinking about. And then, start playing with the ideas of it. Expand on it. Put it into different scenarios. Pretend seeing yourself doing, saying or being how you want to be. See this ‘Who-You-Want-To-Be’ person. What’s she doing? Who’s she spend her time with? Why? Who does she avoid? Why? She’s rich, financially free. What’s she doing, in that circumstance? "

I have been trying things all my life just to see if I might like them and you know I spent 3/4 of my life in fantasy land. I am beat. I don't even fantasize anymore because it is too emotionally exhausting to feel confident or make decisions or be physical elsewhere in my mind while being physical in my reality.

I don't even get really mad or hate anymore. Who has the energy? I did used to get a lot done and feel quite energetic when I was mad and it did inspire me for some of my more interesting faux pas and adventures. At least I am not a door mat then...whew...Annie's got a personality. Thank God.

There are one or twp things I would do if I had the money...sublet apartments in cities a couple of months a year so I could visit all the art museums and botanical gardens, and I would really fix up our rentals...like I would make the pages of Architectural Digest by fixing up a city street. That's what I wanted to do when Mr T decided to invest in rentals, but he said no of course because it wasn't cost efficient, and thereby proceeded to lose thousands and thousands to disreputable contractors and folks in his investment group. If I would have lost that much money, he would have put me through the wall, but the city would be a beautiful place so it would be worth it.

And that is why I work all the jobs I do to try to pay off his debt and save the lake house for the kids...sigh.

Oh geez...I gotta go. Have a good day. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard De Haven:
Any thoughts? I find the idea of the subconscious fascinating that goes much deeper than our present understanding.

I see it as like being a "cascading style sheet" (CSS) in web design - it is a file that's usually unseen, loads automatically and defines the style of your thinking, actions and reactions, and very often you're not aware of it at all...

You can edit it, block it, or add to it in different content areas, and if you see someone who has a better and more functional one, you can be cheeky and even copy and paste bits from them!

quote:

Originally posted by annievt:
Phil I can't even imagine loving me. What would it feel like? Who knows?

Annie,

What if the reason you can’t imagine loving you is,… you simply do not have the ‘real’ you in mind?

What if the ‘real’ you is someone who is dynamic, and incredibly powerful, and has virtually unlimited potential? What if the ‘real’ you is someone who does not have to earn one iota of worthiness or deservedness, because she already has it? What if the ‘real’ you is easily able to create the life you want? Would this 'you' be easier to love?

This is who I advocate is the 'real' you. Try loving this you.

Phil

I think Phil is on to something (isn't he always?).

Annie, I think you're waiting for your body to call your real/dream self into being, to give you permission to be who you really want to be. But bodies just can't do that, Annie, regardless of proportions and aesthetics. Ask the plastic surgery addicts.

Seems to me, you make your current body a prison for the real Annie, tell her to earn her freedom by manifesting this 'ideal' body. I say, just set you free today, no parole, no strings.

I dare you.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil:
What if the reason you can’t imagine loving you is,… you simply do not have the ‘real’ you in mind?

What if the ‘real’ you is someone who is dynamic, and incredibly powerful, and has virtually unlimited potential? What if the ‘real’ you is someone who does not have to earn one iota of worthiness or deservedness, because she already has it? What if the ‘real’ you is easily able to create the life you want? Would this 'you' be easier to love?

What works for me is -- I think of myself as sort of TWO entities.

1) There is the me that I see and have opinions of -- the me that has limitations and past experiences and blockages. This is the me that has a lot of good qualities, but is far from the ideal I might wish for. Whenever I think of things to like about this me, it always feels a little scary -- as though without those qualities I might not be likable, you know? I'm a bit like Annie in that asserting that this part loves itself seems like a big fat lie.
BUT...there is another part, too.

2) There is the divine source within me. The luminous piece of the universal consciousness that lives within me because it chose to come forth and play in this world in this body. This inner me is what you might call "the true me." It is vastly powerful and LOVES everything. This part of me ADORES the physical me. It adores me in the same way that I might adore a favorite child, pet, or plant -- only more so.

In it's connection to the rest of the universe, it is attracting to me all that I can think to ask for. This part is responsible for the "emotional guidance system" described by A-H. This part can love and be loved unconditionally because it IS pure love.

Each of these two parts loves the other. So when I say "I love myself" I am saying that the physical me loves the divine me AND the divine me loves the physical me. Asking the physical me to love itself is asking too much. But the divine me loves everything and is eminently worthy of love, so asking the two parts to love each other is a cinch. And boy does it feel GOOD!

Ever since I discovered this, I have never been lonely. Also, those bouts of low self esteem don't last long either.

Love and blessings.
Rachel