Hi all,

I have just joined the site and I'm having a quick look around to get a feel for the place. I am sure I will be spending a lot of time here as I my priorities at the moment are to develop my future the way I want it and I am dedicating all my free time to this persuit.

Just to kick off, I thought I'd share how I got here as it may be of interest and I thought I might get some instant feedback from existing, more experienced members.

This will doubtless be a long post so apologies in advance.

I will not take offence if no one replies, I'm just grateful to have the opportunity to be part of this community.

Here goes:

My life has been a very up and down one and whilst I have been told that I am generally over optamistic about things, I can also swing totally the other way. I generally have no middle ground. As such, when things don't go as I planned I get very upset and downbeat.

I've had a number of issues to deal with over the past 3 or 4 years not least of which have been a break up of an 8 year relationship (not a bad break up, but it obviously felt strange), a very stormy 3 month relationship where at the end I just felt used and abused and the meeting and (hopefully temporarily) losing of the love of my life.

On top of that I have been getting deeper and deeper in to debt all the time, which is resulting in me currently packing to move back in with my parents for 6 months in order to sort my debt problems out.

My main motivation though is my true love. We met 15 months ago and I don't think either of us was looking for a relationship, but I think we both needed to find the other and as such, we did.

Neither of us knew that the other had such big problems to deal with and we were both just happy to have each other and we both felt great when we were with one another.

A few months in I started to realise there was more here than I had thought. My love had some severe problems she had been hiding from me and without going in to details, I will just say that when I found out, I did not want to be a part of that life and I was heading for the door. But all the while I was just praying that she would say or do something to get me to stay and she did. She asked for my help.

So I stayed and I helped in every way I could and her problems were all solved (well these ones anyway). All this time I fell more and more in love with her, but with this, i now realise, I was giving myself over to her and becoming dependent on her being part of my life.

She is not from my country. She was here on a working holiday permit and it ran out while we were seeing each other. She had hired an immigration advisor to sort out her visa application, but he was not doing his job. As such, she could not work and my financies continued to suffer.

However, as she couldn't work and we had no money, she couldn't get out and socialise. She had no company and when she did meet someone from her past (a past I was trying for us to escape) I got paranoid. I didn't like it and I tried to control the situation. I wasn't doing it to hurt her, I was just scared of losing her. I thought she'd be happier with her friend than with me as I did not have the means to offer her much of a life financially and I was scared. But, by trying to control her and pull her back to me I didn't realise but I was pushing her away.

She returned to South Africa about a month ago in order to formally make her application to return.

A week after she had left it dawned on me. I love this girl so much and I want her to be happy. I shouldn't be trying to control that I should just be happy she is part of my life.

I called her friend to make peace and I did. And then I just looked forward to going over to join my love and to return here with her by my side.

I went to the gym every day and booked a facial for the day before I was due to leave to make the most of me for my return to her arms.

Two days before my departure my parents called to say they had to see me. I went to their house where they told me my love had been on the phone and she had been denied her Visa. She would not be coming back.

I called her to tell her I love her and I wanted to spend my life with her and that when I got there in two days, we would get married and then paperwork would not get in the way.

She said no.

I said that I would do anything to be with her, so I would move to South Africa.

She said no.

She told me she wasn't sure is she wanted a relationship right now. She didn't think we were suited and she wanted to sort her own life out and not be dependant on anyone outside her family ever again.

She would do her course there (3 years) and then see how she felt.

I was heart broken. I pleaded and begged her to give us a second chance, but as I did this I just made things worse.

I have re-booked to go over mid September for 3 weeks and she says she is willing to remain open minded about us, but I know her very well and she is cutting off the idea in her mind.

I needed to find the answer. We are perfect for each other. I just lost my way and I need her to see that.

I searched the internet and found a few sources similar to the SOGR book. Very similar teachings and it was through them and associated links that I ended up here.

I have adapted my whole life in the persuit of making me a better person in order to win back my love and to make me less pathetic in the process (the two I believe are the same).

Through traveling this path, I have found that my last 3 conversations with my love have been much better and in the last one she, for the first time in a long time, opened up to me about her fears of not being good enough to get in to her course.

I did not try to tell her what to do, I simply listened and told her what I could see in her and that she just needs to see it too. The call went very well and for the last week up until that point, I have felt great.

That was 2 days ago, but today I am less confident. There is no reason for this. I simply woke up this morning missing her. I tried to visualise being with her. To see our future together. I tried focusing on my breathing. I tried yoga (I have recently started this) and whilst all these things helped there is a little doubt that remains.

I am scared of not getting her back. I am scared she doesn't want me. I know this is my ego talking, but I know I belong with her and I'm scared that I messed it all up.

Generally I am fine. I am sure that it will work out in the end. We belong together and we will end up together, but when I feel like this I feel helpless in removing the fear.

That is why I am here.

The riches I am seeking are in love. I love this girl so deeply and I will do anything to make her happy.

If she can only be happy without me then I would leave her life forever, but I would not no how to fully deal with the pain. However, I believe we can have a wonderful life together and I will do ANYTHING to make it so.

I am working on my self worth and my financial situation and I have taken a great deal from SOGR so far. But, much as I believe I can obtain wealth and an improved life, I am a little shakey on the relationship part as it is just so important to me.

I am looking for assurances where there are none.

I believe anything is possible and anything can be achieved, but I don't know how to be sure I'm not making the wrong moves or heading the wrong way.

I love her and I want more than anything to return her to my life and I hope to aid my discovery of how to do that here.

If you've read this far, I am grateful for your interest. Any comments you wish to make I will receive with thanks.

Although, I feel I am now heading in the right direction for the first time in my life, there are always questions and this seems like a wonderful way to get those questions out there and hopefully with the help of each other, find the answers we seek.

Thank you again.

Welcome Wierdo!

Interesting nickname you have there. I thought I was the only one, but hey after reading your post I can see my reflection init in many ways. As we say here in America, "been there, done that."

I feel your pain my friend. All I have to offer is simply this. Know what you wnat, Know that it is your God given right to have it, know that it is your NOW, and then release it with Gratitude that "It is so" I know it is easier said than done, but in reality it is just as easy to do it as to say it.

You bring into reality whatever it is that you choose to focus on most of the time and directly proportionate to the intensity of the feelings with which you devote that attention.

Thanks for sharing with us. You will find many good friends and a lot of sage advice in this forum. Take it to heart and believe that whatsoever you choose to have you will, but remember that what you choose to have is determined by what you focus on and how strongly you feel about it.

To the person who wrote:

"All I want is to be the best I can possibly be!"

Let me preface this by saying: These are just my opinions.

In my opinion, you are stuck in a delusion. AND you are stuck in rationalizing that you are right.

You wrote, “I will do anything to make her happy.”

Delusion: You think you can make another person happy. You can’t.

“Other people can neither make us miserable nor make us happy.” - p.3 of Choice Theory by William Glasser, M.D.

Because you are deluded you have created a problem. Because you created it you are also blind to the solution. You are stuck in the problem, and it’s one that you created, but you don’t even know you created it. And as old Einstein said, “You cannot solve a problem with the same mind that created it.”

The way it is, as you tell it, is: She is not near you or with you or agreeing with to be with you. That, in itself, is not a problem.

Fact: This is not a problem. It simply is a condition. This is not CAUSING you any distress, fear or painful feelings.

Fact: Conditions do not cause us to feel one way or another.

“We create our own heaven or hell. Your thoughts can imprison you or set you free. Complications, conditions or people do not upset you, but the way you think about them causes your upset. Freedom is not possible until we discipline and retrain our minds.”
p. 124 of Choose To Live Peacefully by Susan Smith Jones, Ph.D.

Consider this: If you were already truly happy you would not have this problem. But since you are not really happy, your unhappiness has created this problem. So, now you are in this vicious cycle that you have created a problem relationship, but you won’t believe that you created it, and therefore, you cannot yet see that you could also UN-create it.

Consider this: If you were already truly happy you would not be attempting to sway this girl to do as you please. You would not be trying to argue the merits of you two being together. If you were truly happy you might still have a ‘preference’ but you would not be suffering at all if it were not met.

“Your suffering is the pain of holding onto that which no longer serves you.” – Kahlil Gibran

It seems to me, you are suffering because you are holding onto an idea – a belief – that no longer serves you. It may be a belief in ‘dependence.’

At one time in your life your reality was that you needed others in order to be ok. You needed others to provide for you, food, shelter, affection, protection, nurturing, etc. And when you got these things you felt very good; you experienced ‘well being.’

But now, you are evolving into someone who can possibly be self sufficient. This is a natural part of your evolutionary human experience. But if you try to ‘cling to your past’ it will be a painfilled experience. In order to naturally and easily evolve you have to let your ‘old self’ die. You have to let the former ‘dependent’ you die and allow the birth and formation of the new independent, self reliant you.

When something is dying it naturally wants to stay alive. Your old self naturally wants to live, so it will create very convincing rationalizations to convince you to let it live. But you need to choose to let it die, if you are to birth, nurture and evolve the new you.

“We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.” -- Don Juan in Journey To Xtlan

You want your life to take an upward path, of growth, greater happiness and prosperity. Well, everything has its price. To have more, you need to give up the attitudes and beliefs that are holding you back.

“Suffering is always optional.” From ‘Restore Your Magnificence’ by Dr. Joe Rubino

“When anything external distresses us, it is not the event which causes us pain; rather, it is our response to it, and this we have the power to revoke at every given moment." - Epictetus

Phil

quote:

But now, you are evolving into someone who can possibly be self sufficient. This is a natural part of your evolutionary human experience. But if you try to ‘cling to your past’ it will be a painfilled experience. In order to naturally and easily evolve you have to let your ‘old self’ die. You have to let the former ‘dependent’ you die and allow the birth and formation of the new independent, self reliant you.

When something is dying it naturally wants to stay alive. Your old self naturally wants to live, so it will create very convincing rationalizations to convince you to let it live. But you need to choose to let it die, if you are to birth, nurture and evolve the new you.

“We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.” -- Don Juan in Journey To Xtlan

Thank you Phil.

Hello,

I am so glad you are willing to go after what you want.Although I feel the answer is right in front of you. (my opinion of course)
Let her go. She is not for you. To much drama.
It is time for you to move on and worry about you. I know you feel she is "the love of your life" does one really need to persuade someone to love them? If after all you have done if she cannot see how wonderful you have been and how you gave her all you could to help her then I am afraid she is not for you.

There is someone for you waiting. Someone who will work with you toward success in love and life not someone whom you have to drag along and beg and plead to want you.
Beleive me you will meet when you least expect it and it will be a positive and equal interest that will bring the 2 of you together.
It is in the stars.

Good Luck to you.
God Bless You.
Bella

Hi,
I can feel your pain,and this is possibly one of the hardest lessons in your life, BUT you need to let go, You have stated what you want, you have visualised the outcome you want, that is good BUT now its time to let go completely and release the outcome, if you are truly meant to be together as you believe, you will be and it will be a much stronger union when it happens, than by trying to force the issue, if you are not meant to be you will meet the one who is truly for you and because you have released the outcome, you will be able to really accept and embrace your true love.
Be strong and have complete faith. I always loved the saying-
If you love something
set it free
If it comes back to you
Its yours
If it doesnt
It never was
Good Luck,
Judi

Thank you all so much for your thoughts.

I would perhaps like to clarify some parts though.

I am changing and I am following the principles that you all speak of and I am a much more grounded, secure and happy person for it.

The quote about when something is dying it naturally wants to stay alive I feel is apt. I have named my former self "Pathetic Mess" and I decided 6 days ago that he was now dead and would never be resurected.

I have lived by that for 6 days. I have focused on what I want from life and that picture has become clearer through reading sogr. For 5 of those 6 days I was commited to the idea that whatever I ask for I will receive and that I need not worry about it and I was truely grateful for the mental image and the realisation of that thought. Also, I was grateful for having experienced love of this magnitude at all. But on day 6 (today) doubts crept in. I don't know where from, but they did and a glimmer of my former self appeared.

I was unwise to say that I want to "make her happy". What I intended by that is that I want her to be happy as I want to be happy myself and from my experience of relationships and my life with her so far, I truely believe that we both can be. Not because of each other, but I believe we can enhance each other's lives by sharing them.

I am commited to getting on with my own life and finding my own way to happieness, but I am sure that this part of my life could be amazing for both of us.

Once, not too long ago, my love was more dependant on me than I was on her. She was scared to lose me as she felt as I did that this was too good to pass up. It was me who ruined that. I lost my gratitude. I lost my knowlage of what love is. I treated her like a possetion to be fought for and won rather than a soul that I cherished. I do not blame her for feeling how she now feels and if I hadn't changed my view, she would be wise to avoid me (not for any physical reason you understand. I would never intentionally hurt her. But, I did hurt her unintentionally in an emotional way).

But, I have changed. I don't like "pathetic mess" and I never want him to return. And, because of that I believe our lives could be perfectly harmonious.

I am also open to the idea that I may be wrong and there is someone out there better suited to me. But, I don't really believe that is possible. No one could be better.

I've been in similar situations before where my ego got in the way and I created my own misery and thought I'd never get over it, but deep down I knew I would.

This time I am no longer that "pathetic mess" I am getting on with my life, but my heart remains with her and I believe her's is with me but she is fighting the idea because she fears being emotionally damaged again.

This would never repeat. I do not want to own her. She is her own person. I already love her and so I cannot gain that which I already have. I believe she still loves me, but she is smothering that part of her and now after all she has said, her ego will fight not to let that part out again as it would be like saying she was wrong.

If she was here I know things would work out because she would see she has nothing to fear only a love to share. But she is not here and I am not there and I'm not sure if me making moves to go there or asking her to consider coming back here is imposing my will.

I have spoken to her today and asked her to think about her situation. Her financial future would get off on a better footing if she came here and if things work out we could both return to her country in a few years with a financial boost. But, there would be no pressure. She should do what is right for her and I will do likewise, but I will continue to believe that a future together would be wonderful for both of us.

I have seen it, I have dreamed it and I love it and I am thankful. I just need to somehow seal the coffin lid on "pathetic mess" and continue to believe and therefore it must come true.

However, I'm not sure how to completely seal that coffin as he just creaps up on me from time to time and I find it difficult to believe 100% of the time. 80% of the time it is easy and I am happy, but then there is the other 20% were I find those doubts. I don't know how to shake them. Not quickly anyway.

Sharing with others helps, but then I dwell on it too long. However, I usually tell my friends that I believe it will work out and that I know I'm being pathetic and that gets me back.

Bottom line. I love her, I truely do and I feel in my heart I should be with her. I want to achieve this more than anything and I believe it is right. But, I also believe that "pathetic mess" was very wrong and inflicted a great deal of damage to our relationship and I worry sometimes that the damage is a little to great.

I know not what to do about that feeling.

Thank you again for all your help. I am so thankful that there are people out there I can converse with who don't just say the obvious things, but think about it the way I want to think about it.

It is my birthright to be happy and I believe this will make me so. As such, it must come to fruition.

Right?

Thanks.

Thank you for sharing your story. It's an experience that most everyone will go through at one time or another. I don't believe anyone can tell you the outcome. When people are in a relationship they develop something that really can only be fully defined by them and sometimes it takes the partners a long time to figure it out. I've been doing counseling for many years and I can never tell you who will stay together, split-up, or work things out. Sometimes the couples with everything going for them can't make it and the ones with everything against them stay together. Sometimes a 'no' can be forever or it can mean 'not now'. I guess time can only tell.

I think trials give a person an opportunity to grow in unforeseen ways. Your evolution to this better self will be a blessing to you whether you are with her or not. 'To thine own self be true.' I have found this to be essential to having a good relationship with yourself and others. You can never lose by addressing your shortcomings and changing them. In this way you are right that you will be truly rich, in at least a god-given love for yourself. That's way SOGR says that the Will is to be applied to self and not on others as a way leading to riches.

I firmly believe that if you love someone you should set them free. It is those trials and times away from each other that usual determine which way the relationship will grow. If you were to have a heartfelt talk with most people you will find that the relationship was on the brink of ending or they had been apart for a while before they knew they were meant for each other. I'm not trying to provide you false hope. My commitment for 2005 is to live in the truth no matter how painful, so I am only being candid with you.

Through all this express your gratitude whenever you can. A controlling person usually finds this difficult. If this woman is to ever be convinced that you are different, your attitude of gratitude may be the key.

May you be showered with love and many blessings.

AIBA