I read the initial thread started by Casper about his problem with great interest.

Rather than add to his thread, I decided to start a new one, seeking advice on handling a negative situation of my own.

I have a downstairs neighbor who is very unpleasant and disagreeable, and also has a tendency to play his stereo really loud, an all too common problem in apartments.

But this guy is in a class all his own. I have spoken with him in a friendly manner, and his response has been anything but friendly. Very aggressive. Others have also commented on that.

At the time, I had also spoken with the management of the complex, but the lady didn't want to do anything, partly because
she was intimidated. And he can be intimidating.

I'm thinking of having another go with the managers, but my concerns are:

1. I may be able to pressure them to give him a warning, BUT this may only have the
opposite effect and embolden him further.

I can also see myself being caught up in a downward spiral, and perhaps responding in kind if he doesn't comply. Now, this presupposes that the managers will give him a warning in the first place.

2. In addition, he has a tendency to lie, and accused me of making noise. The reason I say lie is because I've been living here for a while now and no one has ever complained about me making noise.

Even an apartment manager lived beneath me for a time, and never complained, and I talk to my neighbors.

Regardless, I've addressed his concerns as a goodwill gesture, but no difference. I think he made it up just because I complained to him.

3. So, my other concern, if he gets a warning, he may tell some lies about me to the managers, which may muddy up the waters.

4. My biggest concern in all of this is that I get sucked into a competitive retaliatory mindset, which I can, because:

- His actions and attitudes seem to push some buttons in me and make me react a little more strongly.

- And he seems to relish his confrontational attitude, so he may be looking for a fight.

I'm not sure how to resolve this. Ideally, I'd like to avoid any further confrontation, because realistically, it might not work.

This especially if the managers
don't issue a warning, and if they do, he takes it as an encouragement to step up his abusive behavior.

I've been reading SOGR and trying to maintain the "certain way of thinking" despite what's going on around me.

I'm not sure, vibrationally, how I attracted such a person to me, but I can't help but think this is some kind of a test, except I'm not sure of the outcome.

I've been envisioning "peace and quiet" as my certain way of thinking, but it gets
difficult when he cranks it up.

Any encouraging advice or perspective in dealing with this in the SOGR way would be appreciated. Thanks.

Sorry for such a drawn out post, but I needed to explain the situation.

We had horrible neighbours for awhile, dog that barked a lot and attacked one of our cats and kids that were constantly hitting their football over the fence and jumping over to get it and crushing my garden despite us telling them not to do that. Anyway, things worked out very well after not very long at all. They moved! I remained thinking positive that everything would work out for the best and now we have very quiet neighbours and i don't even know what they look like! My partner was keen to go chasing them up after moving about things but I told not to bother, we're happy about the situation now and theres no point dwelling on it any longer, just get on and enjoy life.
I think there is lesson's in there for everyone in situatuions like this, though sometimes it is very hard to see what that is at the time. I'm sure unsure what ours was!
Just trust that everything will work out for the best, remind yourself of that when you're starting to get annoyed and look for something to be grateful for, however small it may be.
Things worked out well for us in the same situation so I know things will for you too.

Shannon

quote:

And he seems to relish his confrontational attitude, so he may be looking for a fight.

The guy probably has very little love and attention and appears not to have developed a very mature attitude. Hence he sounds like he acts like most adolescants - rude and attention seeking.

If complaining about his loud music makes things worse, have you thought about complimenting him on his musical taste (if at all possible) and asking who the artist is?

Have you any idea if he follows sport - ask him if he saw the game last night?

Just a couple of suggestions from a different angle. I'm not saying they will work, but might be worth a try.

quote:

Originally posted by Searcher:


I can also see myself being caught up in a downward spiral, and perhaps responding in kind if he doesn't comply. Now, this presupposes that the managers will give him a warning in the first place.

Hi Searcher Jay ~
I would like to help comment a bit more on your post but I must run off to work this morning so it will have to wait until later....BUT, I did want to just point out one thing that I picked up in your words above. You say you can SEE yourself being caught up in it all...that's part of the trouble. Perhaps it's just the way you worded it, but try SEEING yourself resolving the issue peacefully and quietly.

You mentioned in your Hello post that you thought you and I were kind of alike...I agree with you. I love the peace and quiet too and I've been in your shoes before myself.

Guys, thanks for the responses so far

- Dazzer, the guy is a hunter, and I engaged him in conversations about hunting, since I know a little bit about it, and even though I personally don't like hunting. Looking at him, frankly, he looks like a redneck, bald, rough looking, beer belly, wearing camoflauge pants, has a camoflauge jeep.

Yes...a camoflauge jeep with a gorilla as a hood ornament. Not making this up.

I guess that's where the intimidation factor comes in. The apmt manager thought he might freak out and go postal. Another neighbor who lived next to him for a short time also complained, and she was quite afraid of him.

He definitely stands out in the complex.

So, yes, I tried to engage him in conversations about his interest.

- Shannon, glad to hear your problem worked out. I know there's a lesson somewhere in mine.

-Laurie, you're absolutely right. But when I say I can see, I mean I acknowledge the potential in me. More on that below.

I don't want to seem all bummed out and pessimistic. I am practicing the SOGR method, but on this one issue I seem to get thrown off my tracks. I have to gently shift my feelings, but there is a sore spot here.

And like Wattles said, concentrate on what you WANT, but you know it's like being hit on the toe with a hammer, you can't help but focus on the pain when it happens.

I compressed my experience with this guy because I didn't want to make the narration any longer than it was. This has been going on for a while.

After I had my talks with him, he continued doing what he was doing for the next few months, then for some reason, he moderated and became bearable, and I also came to tolerate his occassional outbursts (with the help of earplugs).

Now, he's back up, and with a new twist, I can tell he moved his speakers to his bedroom, which is right underneath mine. And I can sometimes hear it in the morning and evening.

B4, he had them in his living room, so I could go to my bedroom when it became unbearable, and work on my computer.

I mean, even b4 I got the SOGR book, I was cordial and friendly, which is my standard approach in resolving issues like this, rather than getting into an argument with him. I have gone the aggressive confrontational route b4, and really it doesn't work.

First of all, it's not really in my nature, so when I do it, the negativity really saps the energy.

I'm not a pushover, I will stand up for myself, as I did when I approached him, but I don't like aggressive confrontation. My experience, everyone loses there.

Even writing the narration felt like a drain, but at the same time a relief. However, I had to get some input.

A point Rebecca made in one of the articles and also the other books I've read, is not to ignore your negative feelings, acknowledge that they are there, and then shift to get to a better place. Ignoring and suppressing just makes it worse.

So Laurie, that's what I meant. But your point is excellent. I never thought of envisioning what you said. Good thing to dwell on.

I never intended to bring this up, esp being a newbie, but when I read Casper's message thread, it clicked and I knew I just had to post my experience and seek some enlightened advice.

I know the standard advice in my situation, call the police, or pressure the management to giving him a warning, but that may not be a peaceful resolution.

I'll have to focus on that, AND PEACE and QUIET

Searcher, you've put a lot of time and energy into describing for us what you do NOT want.

Now try putting at least as much into describing what you DO -- not for us but for yourself. Then shift your focus to THAT instead of the lack of it.

You will ONLY EVER attract/create what you give your focus, faith, and feeling to. It doesn't matter if you SAY you want peace when you're focusing so much on the opposite of it.

Give your attention first to consciously choosing where to direct your thought and the all-important FEELINGS that accompany those thoughts. As you do that, the amount of action will be greatly lessened and the type and timing of action will be clear.

Hi Searcher,
I've been reading your thread with some interest, because my occupation is a Violence and Aggression advisor for the National Health Service in Scotland. Which kinda means I teach Doctors and Nurses etc how to manage and cope with aggressive service users. Doesn't mean my advice is cure all, or that you will even like it, however I'll give you my 10 cents worth.

This chaps behaviour does seem to be adolescent, and it's very much about power. Basically he's saying "I'll do whatever I like and the rest of you will just have to put up with it". This causes you distress because it strips feelings of empowerment from you. You have tried to be assertive with him and challenge his behaviour, but he has basically challenged you straight back with a kind of "What are you going to do about it" attitude. This is always a risk if you challenge someones behaviour, it can potentially escalate.

He's playing a game we call The Drama Triangle. (Search for transactional analysis on the net, it will explain his behaviour and this game) When this game is played certain feelings are generated, his seems to be power. He's sucking you into the game as well though, your playing it with him. Your feelings will be negative, and you might try and
re-dress this by becoming more aggressive/ forcefull yourself. (The spiral you mentioned). You need to step out of the game and think about it in an adult logical fashion. You can invite him to step out the game also, but my gut instinct is he won't because he likes the feelings of power to much.

If your apartment managers are frightened of him then your best bet is go talk to the police for advice, if not to complain. Strike up a relationship with the local police, they can access potential crimal records for this guy, and at least might give you an idea if he is a real risk. If they are anything like the Scottish police they will be approachable and senstive to your concerns about them intervening. Don't be frightened of the police. I don't think ignoring the situation and wishing it away will help. "Action" is whats required, and speaking to the police is probably the first step, even if you don't lodge a complaint.

Don't give into fear, it loves to be your fortuneteller, if you let it. Envisage your positive image and take action towards it.

Hope this helps a bit.

Traveller

Guys, and esp Rebecca, I want to sincerely apologize if my posting this has been a nuisance, I was reluctant to do so. I certainly don't want to start off on the wrong foot on this board.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, there seems to be quite a few postings about difficult people and anger.

This is a good board, and thank you Rebecca for the book and this great site. I had sent you a thank you email.

I know what you're saying, I've read it in the book, but this seems to throw me off balance. As I said b/4, if someone hits you on the toe with a hammer, it's kind of hard not to notice the pain.

Traveller,you've hit the nail on the head with regards to my situation. He has taken away some of my empowerment. I think that's why my buttons are pushed.

I am looking at a peaceful resolution, and I need to focus on that. Matter of fact, he made that statement to me, "I'll do whatever I like...." Another neighbor told me he cursed him out once.

I want to get off the well worn path of engaging in a retaliation game, that's why I'm here, and because it won't do any good.

He thrives on it apparently. You've suggested a good avenue. I never thought of anything but complaining to the police.

In the past on other issues of disturbance they didn't seem to be interested, but maybe this station will. I need to find the station responsible for this area.

I do need to concentrate on what I want, because I've written 5 pages of my CMI, and want to keep on track, and maintain a positive attitude, which will no doubt facilitate a peaceful resolution one way or another.

Again, I'm really appreciating all of your thoughtful comments and patience, I was afraid I might be lectured at and told get off this board. In a small way this adds to my empowerment.

BTW, Traveller you're from Scotland huh? One of my goals is to travel, and that's one of the places I'd like to go .

quote:

Originally posted by Searcher:
I certainly don't want to start off on the wrong foot on this board.

I was afraid I might be lectured at and told get off this board. In a small way this adds to my empowerment.

No wrong feet here, friend! We all post about what is on our minds and some times we just need to get it all out and it helps to have others' viewpoints. And we can learn from you just as much as you can learn from any of us.

I'm learning more every day from everyone on this forum. I'm grateful that I found it when I did. I started out as a LBDP'er (look but don't post) but jumped in one day for help with my current situation. I was given excellent advice. And had a few things pointed out to me about what I was perhaps doing wrong. I learned much from it.

And this is like anything else that's worth learning about. None of us understand or know it completely right off the bat. It's a growing and learning experience and we have to practice it consciously.

So keep posting and learning and growing. It's nice to have you here.

Thanks for the kind words.

I do have several pages of my CMI and concentrate on it. Unfortunately, it's an added challenge sometimes when the stereo is blasting downstairs

Hello Searcher,

I have had my share of neighbours and I know what it can do to you. Complaining will only push people away from you, what Traveller said looks like a good approach.
Here in Holland they are starting up many mediator projects. A good policeman (M/F) can act as mediator also.

And I know it is hard to ignore this loud noise. But do the best you can to not let the other guy know he upsets you. If you stop feeding his need, he might get bored and move elsewhere. I am sure we have a little island somewhere on this beautiful earth that nobody else needs

Am I making sense? I am not saying to ignore it, please do take action and deal with it. Just don't give him the emotional satisfaction he is trying to get from you by playing his game with him.

Caroline

Hi Searcher,

In Scotland – in the whole of the UK actually – there is a legal device called an “Anti-Social Behaviour Order” that can be issued against someone such as the guy making the noise in your message. Some people have even been evicted from their homes because of there behaviour. I don’t know if a similar device exists in your state but it may help if it does.

It is quite a new law – but a necessary one to deal with “Quality of Life” issues (disrespectful behaviour to you and me).

I think the formless can take us a long way – but there is nothing about it that stops action being taken. It is also important to remember that everything that happens to us is not necessarily deserved. I’m not sure if we are always responsible for its attraction either. I know some readers will disagree with this view. Test your own view against some of the terrorist outrageous there has been over the past few years.

It seems you have a choice in the first instance: do you move or do you stay?

The law is in a crazy place these days – giving more protection to the criminals than the innocent. If you take legal action and get the guy turffed out – he still knows where you stay and could “visit” at any time. I mention this only because of the description that you gave of him.

So I don’t think you should take direct action. I know this has implications for your own personal power. Your safety is more important.

I think it is for the manager of the building to deal with this problem. And while it is important for you to stay positive and to think in a certain way; it is also important to realise if you communicate this attitude to the building manager then he will think there isn’t really a problem.

Perhaps a quiet word with your neighbours could trigger a flood of complaints to the manger. If so, his job will be clear to him. From what you have said the manager is motivated by pain – if all of the residents are causing him pain (metaphorically speaking) then he will act.

Internally you must vision your future as living at peace with your neighbours in a happy place.

One more point. Given that your Mr Nasty is on a power-play he will interpret a change of tactics as weakness and will probably get worse. So going from “please be quiet” to “did you see the game” may not be the best strategy.

All the best and let us know how it goes – remember there are thousands of people here on YOUR side.

Traveller.....

"The Drama Triangle" information made my day....and I am so grateful to you....Other than finding SOGR and Rebecca....this one sentence has opened up a whole new world awareness about my reactions from the day I was born....Up until now I had no idea there was a triangle of persecutor, victim, rescuer and the game they play amongst each other.......Wow.....From dark to light instantly!.....I always thought I was the victim......not so...I have played all three...... Thank you Traveller!

Casper- Yes, I thought about getting the neighbors together, but the lady I spoke about has since left. Besides, the lady and I both complained to the management.

The other guy (the one who was cursed at), well, he doesn't really hear the music like I do since he's across the way.

And he's not always here, as he does a lot of traveling, plus he largely keeps to himself when he is.

I do want to move, move out of state, that's part of my CMI, but I have to find an income opportunity to where I want to move, another part of my CMI.

I may have another try with the manager and/or explore options with the police, but if he receives a warning, he'll know I was the cause.

This is a challenge, especially not knowing if the actions I take will make things better or worse, and a challenge for focusing on my CMI.

Caroline -

I understand exactly what you're saying. Matter of fact, eveything that's been suggested thus far has been considered by me at one time or other.

Like I said above, the challenge is not knowing if the actions I take will make things better or worse.

So therein lies the question, what action?

But your suggestions help me to put things in perspective. You can go stir crazy thinking about this alone.

Also, in integrating SOGR into my thinking, Wattles does say you shouldn't try to control other people's actions, as in the chapter "How to use Will" (?)

PS. Sounds like the police in Europe are a lot better than the ones here. I remember a few years ago in another place I lived in not far from here when I did call in a complaint of domestic disturbance.

I didn't get a very enthusiastic response on the phone and no one showed up.

There is a solution for dealing with difficult people. It's the same solution for dealing with tough times, stress at work, being broke, feeling unloved, and having to pick up dog poop (which increases exponentially by the number of dogs you have - 1 dog, 2 piles. 2 dogs, 6 piles).

It's gratitude.

Thank you, Lord, that I supervise a challenging employee. She has taught me patience, and how to stand up for myself, and how to keep a civil tongue, and when to keep quiet. She has taught me about respect, and compassion, and understanding.

Thank you, Formless, for this wonderful person. She has shown me who I want to be and how to treat other people. She has increased my standing among my superiors because they see how well I deal with challenging people!

Thank you, Formless, because by your grace I am who I am and she is who she is. Thank you for this opportunity to learn and to grow as a human being. The happiness I want for myself, I want for her, too. Thank you for putting this person in my path so that I could learn from her.

Laurie

Yep, gratitude is something I've been integrating in my life. I've been giving gratitude about what I do have, about my father, etc.

I've been consciously doing this, shifting from the feelings of intense bitterness and suicidal darkness months ago.

With regard to this particular individual, I did say in my original post that I thought this was some kind of a test for me.

I've sincerely tried to give gratitude and project well wishes to my neighbor.

I remember during one particular jam session downstairs, I chose to close my eyes and concentrate intently on gratitude and project well wishes. Something to break through.

However, the noise eventually broke my concentration, although I didn't end up cursing him out or anything.

Addendum:

I guess bottomline, how do you keep negative feelings and doubts from creeping in, especially under immediately stressful situations?

I read somewhere else on this forum where Rebecca said living the certain way is 24/7, not just part time, and she's echoing the book.

You live in that desired world 24/7, that's the only way you'll see it materialize. This is very true, but the thing is, how do you keep negative feelings and doubts from welling up especially when you're buffeted?

I don't deny that I may have attracted this somehow, but as pleasant as my desires are, it becomes an effort to keep the focus on them at times in the face of appearances.

And when I feel the negative vibes well up, I also find myself getting the sinking feeling that I'm just perpetuating the very thing I don't want (ie.what you focus on comes into being) and digging the hole deeper.

Shifting then becomes harder; keeping the balance.

You almost have to have the serenity of a saint.
Wattles describes it as the Master Mind.

Sorry for rambling.

quote:

You live in that desired world 24/7, that's the only way you'll see it materialize. This is very true, but the thing is, how do you keep negative feelings and doubts from welling up especially when you're buffeted?

Practice. Consistent practice over time. It gets easier.

quote:

I don't deny that I may have attracted this somehow, but as pleasant as my desires are, it becomes an effort to keep the focus on them at times in the face of appearances.

Yes, it's an effort. Mr. Wattles calls it the hardest work in the world.

You are examining beliefs and behaviors it took you a lifetime to develop. Take your time and trust the process. Practice the Certain Way long enough and it will infuse every cell in your body.

It can be great fun, if you will let it!

Laurie

Yes, practice and effort even if you get swerved off track.

However, Rebecca, in http://forums.scienceofgettingrich.net/eve/forums/a...61092761#5061092761, where she talks about 24/7, it seems to me that one slip and that's it, you start from scratch.

This echoes pg.32 of SOGR (the page number on the actual document, not in Acrobat reader), where Wattles says:

"Every hour and moment you spend in giv-
ing heed to doubts and fears, every hour you spend in worry,
every hour in which your soul is possessed by unbelief, sets a
current away from you in the whole domain of intelligent sub-
stance."

He goes on further to elucidate, in effect, that faith must be absolutely unwavering and air tight.

In other words, I get the impression there's no room for practice, it must be perfect, airtight, all or nothing.

I have no dispute as to the veracity of this, and it is indeed wonderful when someone can totally and absolutely disregard their environment, no matter how wretched.

As a matter of fact, I've pretty much spent the balance of the day rereading what I've already read, and slowly continuing further. I'm just halfway through, only because I want to absorb this. The observations that Wattles makes about poverty are absolutely outstanding,

Inspiring the poor as a way of empowering them, as opposed to wallowing in poverty is so simple, but yet so profound and brilliant. Too bad social scientists never took heed of this guy; the world might have been very different.

There have been instances where this has been practiced, and it has done wonders. The poverty bank movement that began in India in the 80's, and now has gone to other developing countries is an example.

Anyway, getting back to my original point, it's the absolutism of the statements that kind of add to the difficulty of shifting when I find myself getting off track.

quote:

Originally posted by Searcher:
I guess bottomline, how do you keep negative feelings and doubts from creeping in, especially under immediately stressful situations?
how do you keep negative feelings and doubts from welling up especially when you're buffeted?

I don't deny that I may have attracted this somehow, but as pleasant as my desires are, it becomes an effort to keep the focus on them at times in the face of appearances.

Of course.
Until you feel "stressfull","buffeted"
it´s almost impossible to focus on the desires.
FIRST,
you must look for the good in everything.
That will cause you to be in harmony with everything.
That´s your FIRST practice.
1)Your thinking/acting attracted where you are.
2)NOW,
give your attention only to the best.
3)"Ask largely".
You attracted your circumstance.
If you are so powerful,
then attract something good.

I know the principles, they're laid out clearly enough in the book, but how about my question from my last post about our faith having to be airtight?

"In other words, I get the impression there's no room for practice, it must be perfect, airtight, all or nothing."