Since my fiance ended things 5 weeks ago, I have heard from two men from the past. My GP, who is a very spiritual person, said that these people have strong antenae and can sense that there is a space there now that they can get back into.

I have been thinking about this. I have for some years allowed both these men to take up enormous amounts of my time and emotional energy, with little in return. I am not blaming them. I allowed it and my self esteem was kept at a very low ebb as a result - no doubt the outside was matching the inside. Neither of these men were going to be partners. One was and is still married and the other very gay.

The married one took a lot for many years (for his family too) and after some time I started giving less because fortunately I was beginning to feel uncomfortable. About 18 mths ago he contacted me to have coffee. I was naive and happy thinking he was finally going to start putting in some effort to 'our friendship' that he often spoke about but didn't act like it. After an animated and friendly catch up he revealed his real purpose - he needed me to write him a reference, which I subsequently did. Then there was a flurry of contact to unburden himself about his daughter's problems. He wanted to meet for coffee again. We set a date but it had to be at his place etc. I contacted him to confirm the date and time and his answer was that he would 'pencil me in'. I told him to forget it as I didn't want to be pencilled in. He didn't get it. So I asked for him to return some things he had borrowed for years - some of which had sentimental value to me. He stuffed around about that. I would have to come and pick them up etc. In the end I told him to keep most of them but there was just one thing - a set of models of Thunderbirds, from the animated series that I really wanted back. He posted them to me a few months later. After that I forgot about him. Last week he emailed me: "I found your business card in the back of a drawer I was cleaning out. How are things your end?"

In the past I would have tried to arrange to meet up. This time I just emailed back and told him how insulting this was to me - last time 'pencilled in' and now a business card at the back of a drawer his was cleaning out. He sent back a weal apology saying he doesn't phrase things well....no matter. Good to finally draw a line and move on (I thought I had but obviously not entirely).

The second man, who I was close to for 12 years, but increasingly finding hard to manage the constant complaining. No matter how many times I asked him to refrain from dumping his problems on me, he manoevred into it. I explained it was now making me physically ill - I used to go home and lie down and I literally couldn't move. It made no difference. I got him to see a therapist. I was much more up front with him than the first man. Last year I got my usual morning call from this one complaining about his sore shoulder and saying he was told he might need surgery and this surgery was the most painful of all surgeries. (naturally). I said I had several friends who had shoulder surgery and they have come through well. He didn't want to hear this so he went on to say: I suppose you can hear I have laryngitis. I honestly replied that I couldn't. Then he told me he had been talking to the Human Resources manager at his company, for whom I had done some work. He was basically interfering where he shouldn't. I was not pleased with that and told him to keep out. He asked if I was angry with him and I said yes. He said: I think I'll go now. Then nothing for 7 months. Two weeks ago he left messages at my work. I emailed him asking if there was some reason for contacting me after so long, and making it plain that if he was looking for emotional support that would not be possible. No reply.

Well, I am finding this very interesting. Yes I can see where I have co-created these relationships. I am almost happy that I have been given the opportunity to take a stand for my own dignity with these other two. If they had just drifted into the abyss as seemed to be the case, then I would not have had that opportunity. It seems to be important for me to draw the line, for there to be a definite end point at which I speak from a better place about myself.

I found a great quote from the book Phil directed us to: Stuart Wilde's, Life was never meant to be a struggle : Never be afraid to let people go if they are not right; often that is the only way you can make room for the right person. Also you are doing them a service. If they are square pegs in round holes, they need your help to move on to a more comfortable setting.

I can't pretend I am full of joy at the moment, but I think this is progress at least.

cheers
Pauline

Hey Pauline,
I've had a few people I've had to let go of the past few months. Two of them I had been hanging onto for a long time, afraid that if I let go, I would never find anyone else to take their place. I've been kinda hanging onto another person, despite knowing that I need to go let and also knowing deep down at the same time, that by letting go I'll be making room for another, better one to come into my life.

It is a process and even if you don't feel full of joy at the moment, keep reminding yourself that you've just made heaps more room for wonderful, supportive new friends and a new partner to come into your life. Its proberly not going to feel true for awhile but I know you'll wake up one day and think and KNOW that it was perfect those people leaving your life when they did.

love to you,

Shannon

Hi Pauline,

Your post reminded me of this quote from Abraham-Hicks:

“When you decide that you want to feel good, and you reach for the vibration that feels good to you and you establish that as your Tone, either the people around you will be uplifted to join you in that vibration or, if their vibration is already very well chosen otherwise, they will clatter right out of your experience. But what happens to most of you is, while they are clattering right out of your experience, you notice they are clattering. You begin to clatter too, and then they clatter right back into your experience, and you clatter together miserably and continually.”

Then, as for creating the kinds of relationships you really want, there is this other quote from A-H:

“All you have to do is get into vibrational harmony with your desire, and your desire must be given to you - and the Universe will find endless ways of bringing it to you.”

It seems to me, our only 'real' work is to get good at feeling good, no matter what. And, it seems, there are endless, wonderful ways to do that, as we open ourselves up to the idea.

Phil

Good for you Sharma. Make way for the new. Be the person you expect to be treated and enjoy receiving people who will treat you according to that expectation!

Hi Pauline,

I have some questions and comments for you. They come from my heart with love and compassion.

quote:

Originally posted by Sharma:
these people have strong antenae and can sense that there is a space there now that they can get back into.

How do we really know this to be true? Do you think they are even conscious of this? These people also include you. Perhaps they are responding to your strong antenna.

quote:

I have been thinking about this. I have for some years allowed both these men to take up enormous amounts of my time and emotional energy, with little in return.

This is key. Most of us get into any type of relationship expecting something in return. What would it be like if we got into a relationship of any kind without exptecations? What if we simply gave of ourselves without needing something in return?

quote:

I am not blaming them. I allowed it and my self esteem was kept at a very low ebb as a result - no doubt the outside was matching the inside.

Very true. You are 100 percent responsible for all that you experience.

quote:

Neither of these men were going to be partners. One was and is still married and the other very gay.

Is there something there that needs to be looked at?

quote:

I started giving less because fortunately I was beginning to feel uncomfortable.

quote:

I was naive and happy thinking he was finally going to start putting in some effort to 'our friendship' that he often spoke about but didn't act like it.

When we truly give of ourselves we loose nothing. We are simply extending the spirit withing. There is nothing for them to take from you.

quote:

I contacted him to confirm the date and time and his answer was that he would 'pencil me in'. I told him to forget it as I didn't want to be pencilled in. He didn't get it.

Does it really matter if someone has to make an appointment to meet. I do that with many of my friends. I am busy and have lots of friends. They understand that. It's not a matter of not caring. At times I have to set a day and time to see my own mother.

There is something else going here. Something that you are not getting.

quote:

So I asked for him to return some things he had borrowed for years - some of which had sentimental value to me.

Why now after all these years?

quote:

Last week he emailed me: "I found your business card in the back of a drawer I was cleaning out. How are things your end?"

In the past I would have tried to arrange to meet up. This time I just emailed back and told him how insulting this was to me - last time 'pencilled in' and now a business card at the back of a drawer his was cleaning out. He sent back a weal apology saying he doesn't phrase things well....no matter. Good to finally draw a line and move on (I thought I had but obviously not entirely).

Big deal that he found your business card at the back of the drawer. He at least took the effort and called. He even apologized.

I really mean this in a very kind and loving way. Get over it! Stop being so judgmental.

You have not drawn a line and moved on until you turn it around and look at all your thoughts with absolute honesty. You know what I mean.

quote:

The second man, who I was close to for 12 years, but increasingly finding hard to manage the constant complaining.

Are you not complaining now about him complaining. Are you not dumping on us here now? It's okay. It's a good place to dump, but lets be clear about it.

quote:

I explained it was now making me physically ill - I used to go home and lie down and I literally couldn't move.

You have heard this time and time again on here. No one has any power to do this to you. You can only hurt by your own thoughts.

quote:

Then nothing for 7 months. Two weeks ago he left messages at my work. I emailed him asking if there was some reason for contacting me after so long, and making it plain that if he was looking for emotional support that would not be possible. No reply.

It's interesting that you automatically assumed he was contacting you for emotional support. What if he had awaken to his spiritual self and wanted to reconnect with you on that level. You never know.

quote:

It seems to be important for me to draw the line, for there to be a definite end point at which I speak from a better place about myself.

I found a great quote from the book Phil directed us to: Stuart Wilde's, Life was never meant to be a struggle : Never be afraid to let people go if they are not right; often that is the only way you can make room for the right person. Also you are doing them a service. If they are square pegs in round holes, they need your help to move on to a more comfortable setting.

When I let go of people or situations in my life it's because I've let go of my attachments to them. I've let go of the idea of trying to get something from them.

When I allow myself to be fully present and in a kind and loving space situations and people naturally move in or out of my life without judgment of any kind.

Some of these people have come back into my life even after years of not hearing from them(the magic of facebook). I have welcomed all them with open arms and those who are not vibrating with me naturally go away.

I always find it interesting that when we say we are in a spiritual place, we can become even more judgmental toward others who are not vibrating in our level of awareness.

We truly have not awakened until we can walk side by side with every brother and sister.

quote:

I can't pretend I am full of joy at the moment, but I think this is progress at least.

It's always progress when we are willing to look further into our thoughts. The more you turn it around and examine your thinking and why such actions trigger such adverse reactions, the more you will free yourself.

You will continue to repeat these lessons until you are willing to see it differently.

If it was a very close family member that took the same actions would you automatically dismiss them from your life? Would you try to shift your thinking to see them with love

I am not saying that these men need to stay in your life but there are definitely some beliefs to examine.

Pauline, be honest with yourself. What do these relationships represent in your life that you think you don't have? What are you afraid of loosing?

Byron Katies, "Judge thy neighbor worksheet" is a great place to start.

Sending you light and love.


Appreciation from the Heart,

Richard De Haven

Hi Richard,

thanks. I know that you are responding from love and compassion and I appreciate you putting so much thought into it.

quote:

How do we really know this to be true? Do you think they are even conscious of this? These people also include you. Perhaps they are responding to your strong antenna.

I think your point about being conscious or not is pivotal. I am not saying these people are consciously looking at ways to move into a space in my life. If they were their approach would be different. I think we all have unconscious antennae. I just noticed the timing of their approaches and thought that was interesting. Of course I have unconscious things going on as well.

Yes I can see that I unconsciously chose to become involved with men who are unavailable. I hate that as it has meant a lot of pain for me. They also chose to enter into that arrangement for their own reasons, conscious or not. I did have a relationship with someone a long time ago who turned out to be gay, but he didn't think so at the time. In that case both our unconscious systems were operating. It was a very close and good relationship and the outcome was also good. We realised together that we weren't meant to be more than friends because of how we both were. I saw him at a church reunion about a year ago and there was no anymosity - I was interested to hear how he left the church and came out and had had some relationships with men. He seemed content. Although we promised to catch up this hasn't happened and that's also OK.

You have heard this time and time again on here. No one has any power to do this to you. You can only hurt by your own thoughts.

I am not saying he made me sick. The reality is that I got sick after trying to be supportive and listening to stuff that affected me. OK, if I was more developed I maybe could have listened without suffering later, but I am not. I found it hard that he continued even after I explained the effects for me. I was naive to think this would make a difference - and I took it to mean that it was more important to him to have his needs met at those times than considering me. In reality he was probably driven and had little conscious control.

It's interesting that you automatically assumed he was contacting you for emotional support. What if he had awaken to his spiritual self and wanted to reconnect with you on that level. You never know.

Fair point. I am simply reacting from past experience. Though I don't regret my response. I am not in a position to give emotional support to this person right now, and I wanted to be very clear about that - albeit clumsily. I guess it is a matter of taking note of experience and observation rather than judging.

Are you not complaining now about him complaining. Are you not dumping on us here now? It's okay. It's a good place to dump, but lets be clear about it.

Yes you are right. I am dumping, and I am grateful to have a place to do it - and will also watch out for that.

Does it really matter if someone has to make an appointment to meet.

There is no problem about making an appointment - I probably didn't express myself well in my ranting. To me the issue was being pencilled in. The same with my things. I don't really care about them - in the end I just told him to keep most of them anyway. It might seem petty and I might do things differently in future - this was just my way at the time of finishing things up. I was happy that he posted those small things I was still attached to and I thanked him for that at the time - quite genuinely.

If it was a very close family member that took the same actions would you automatically dismiss them from your life? Would you try to shift your thinking to see them with love

Well this is an interesting point. It has taken many years to 'dismiss' these two people from my life, so I wouldn't say it is automatic. Yes I got angry recently and maybe that's not good. I don't hate them. I genuinely wish them well. I see this more as my learning to draw boundaries properly and early. It is also an opportunity for them if they want to take it. If they turn up on facebook in the future then who knows. I will probably have moved on enough to be friendly. I have had enough experience to know that things can seem very important at one time and barely remembered later.


[I]Pauline, be honest with yourself. What do these relationships represent in your life that you think you don't have? What are you afraid of loosing? [/I]

Thank you for these questions. Although I am not ready to answer them here, this is something important for me to answer for myself.

love and appreciation to you
Pauline

Hi Pauline,

Here is a quote I recently read.

My mind is preoccupied with past thoughts.

I don't know why I feel inspired to share that with you now but perhaps it may inspire something new.

One more thing. I do hope you are not being hard on yourself at any point. If you are, stop it! You are doing great and you will find that perfect relationship.

Appreciation from the Heart,

Richard De Haven

quote:

Originally posted by Richard De Haven:
This is key. Most of us get into any type of relationship expecting something in return. What would it be like if we got into a relationship of any kind without exptecations? What if we simply gave of ourselves without needing something in return?

Appreciation from the Heart,

Richard De Haven

Thats great Richard and really struck something in me. I've been fighting with a relationship thinking of what I didn't get from it that I felt I should.

It feels kinda hard geting to the point where I don't expect something in return but I guess I can start by thinking about what I did give and how I enjoyed giving it to them.

I'll ponder of this some more.

Shannon

Sharma

I still don’t think you understand what Richard is saying. I say that because in your post after you give reasons for why you did this or said that and its like you are justifying your position. I suggest you reread your post and then reread Richards several times.

What I think he is saying is you will get to a point where anyone can say or do anything to you and it doesn’t affect you one way or another. And when you get to that point those types of situations won’t even show up in your experience.

Hi Capt Jack,

quote:

I say that because in your post after you give reasons for why you did this or said that and its like you are justifying your position.

This gives me the impression you haven't really read my response, or that you have read it through your own eyes (as we all tend to do). In my view I have accepted many of Richard's points and accepted where I am at - i.e. not finished developing yet. To me it is a conversation - one I am very appreciative of as I have expressed. I am still pondering the excellent questions he ended with as they will bring much good fruit. Justification implies I am saying I am right and there is no room to look at myself.

You would have to check with Richard if he was saying what you think he was. I was focussing more on him telling me to look at my beliefs about relationships - my contribution, both consciously and unconsciously, to the situations developing and ending up in the way they did. I am not sure if working on not being affected by anything people say or do to me would be the most useful at the moment. It seems you think I should be doing that and so I will certainly consider it - only because everything suggested on this forum is worth considering - I think it can be a way the universe uses to get a message to you.

I appreciate your comments. I am doing the best I can and it takes time.
cheers
Pauline

Hi Captjack and Pauline,

You are both correct in your interpretation of what was I trying to convey.

Starting to look at our relationships and our contributions, both consciously and unconsciously is definitely a first step into letting go of any beliefs that hold us back.

In fact, in my opinion, it's the only place to start. We must be willing to question our beliefs in order to become aware of what's holding us back.

CaptJack is correct when he states that you will get to a point where anyone can say or do anything to you and it doesn’t affect you one way or another. And when you get to that point those types of situations won’t even show up in your experience.

This is definitely a great place to live from. Imagine how much freedom there is in that. Imagine how different your life would be when others opinions, beliefs and actions did not affect you.

Pauline you stated, that you are not sure if working on not being affected by anything people say or do to you would be the most useful at the moment.

I am not exactly sure what you mean by this. I do not see this as something separate from working on questioning our beliefs. It all kind of meshes together.

Most, if not all, of what affects us is because we have allowed ourselves to be affected by what others have said or done to us. Even what we tell ourselves about ourselves in our private thoughts is a belief we have developed because of external circumstances.

One thing I know for sure is that we are always developing and many times we forget and slip right back into that old way of thinking. The difference is, as we become more aware, we are quicker to snap out of it and move forward without regret.

Another thing that I have learned is that when I am questioning something about myself my ego kicks and screams louder. It doesn't want to go without a fight. Fortunately, I have experienced enough moments of complete Joy that my spirit gently calms my ego and show's him that he is safe from all that he feared.

Appreciation from the Heart,

Richard De Haven

Hi Richard,

quote:

Pauline you stated, that you are not sure if working on not being affected by anything people say or do to you would be the most useful at the moment.

I am not exactly sure what you mean by this. I do not see this as something separate from working on questioning our beliefs. It all kind of meshes together.

I mean that I am fully ensconsed in working on the beliefs that appeared in my view from our discussion and the recent events in my life. It will most likely progress to a situation where I am not affected by anything people say or do - just need to go one step at a time. I will come to my own understandings along the way and in my own way. (and this is perhaps practising the skill mentioned above).

anyway - it's great to have this forum as one avenue to work stuff out.

cheers
Pauline