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Master Contributor |
Hi everyone:
SOGR had been exist for a very long time. The purpose of SOGR program is based on the book Wallace D. Wattles "Science of getting rich". This is an excellent forum provides excellent information. But today, I would like to ask 2 fundamental questions about SOGR and I know there are so many smart and experienced people here. I would like to discuss and listen to your opinions. (1) My 1st question is: "Why do we need to get RICH?" Most of people here try to follow the book in order to make money and "get rich", but I want to ask the deeper question why? "Why do we need get rich?" Have you ever think of this question? This question is so important because you don't want to do something for your whole life and end up with don't know why you do it, do you? According to Mr. Wattles' book,....... "No man can rise to his greatest possible height in talent or soul development unless he has plenty of money; for to unfold the soul and to develop talent he must have many things to use, and he cannot have these things unless he has money to buy them with.", Mr. Wattles mentioned "money" twice in this beginning paragraph, why? Why is getting rich has anything to do with "money", is money equal rich? Why this book don't call "Science of getting money"? (2) My 2nd question will be: Once you get rich(money) then what? Suppose we use SOGR to get rich already, then what? "Getting rich" defeinitely is not the final goal, so what is the real goal? What's next? I Appreciate your time to think and respond for these questions. I believe the more people participate in this discussion, the more clear we will get about the true meaning of SOGR. Thanks. Best wish to all -IMHO ========================= |
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Mind-Blowingly Wonderful Contributor |
To me, money or riches are just ‘means to an end.’ The end the ‘final goal’ that we are really after is an internal sense or experience of well being, balance, harmony, wonder, love, fulfillment, meaning, joy, delight, thrills, peace, calm, ease, freedom, bliss, etc.
Money may support our ‘final goal’ but it doesn’t insure it. A person can have plenty of money and be unhappy. The same thing seems to be true for other things we may desire – certain relationships, circumstances, experiences, status, etc. None of these guarantee happiness, ease, freedom or peace of mind, but they could include them. For example, I once met a man who said he felt FREER after he got married, but how many people say this? For me, a more ‘ultimate’ goal is the capacity to experience a good feeling – peace, love, delight, joy, bliss, etc. – without needing reality to be any different than however it is. This is because I (currently) believe that how I feel is really up to how I respond to what comes into my mind and/or what thoughts I choose to think or dwell upon and empower. But I also believe there is something beyond or ‘behind’ thought that is the ‘field’ from which all happiness, joy, peace, love, etc., spring forth. For example, have you ever noticed yourself having a thought or experience? If so, then you may have noticed this means YOU are NOT what you think or experience. You are actually the Experiencer of what you think or experience. Just some of my thoughts on this. Phil "The Universe is responding to how we feel." Esther Hicks |
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Active Member |
Personally i want to be rich so i can really and truly spend the vast majority of my time doing the things i want to do and not have to go into work everyday. I want to spend my time in personal development, learning languages,learnng about human behaviour,get into extremley good shape and maybe even compete in a few sports like Triathlon and have some pro fights in like muay thai(i also want to practice self defense), i want to travel and live in many different nations and a whole bunch of other things that i cant do right now working a regular nine to five job.
When i go to the supermarket,go out to eat,or go shopping im always having to worry about how much money i spend id also like to have loads of money so my mom can retire from work,take care of her health and spend the last few years travelling and ebjoying herself. I would like to work full time on a project that when completed will write my name into the history books and give me fame and respect. I also want to spend my time trying to find and communicate with the ultimate being God or what ever you like calling him. sorry about my bad grammar and punctuation skills, i wanted to write a bit more but i have a hard time articulating my thoughts,feelings,ideas etc in words written or spoken due to my lack of education. |
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Mind-Blowingly Wonderful Contributor![]() |
Anatone, I think you're doing a great job of expressing yourself! I also think that you give a great explanation of what most of us want from SOGR. I would have written something similar if you hadn't done it first. Love and blessings, Rachel |
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Mind-Blowingly Wonderful Contributor |
Hi Anatone
I loved what you wrote! How marvelous to see someone who shares at least some of my dreams. And as Rachel already said, you expressed yourself wonderfullly. By my education, I am a secretary. That means that correcting spelling and grammar things is like on auto pilot. But I was not correcting when I read your message because your heart and your enthusiasm were shining so brightly. They were so bright that I could not see the minor errors. This is also a matter of perspective. Is your glass half full or it is half empty? Unfortunately, we have been trained to focus on our errors and our weaknesses. But that is wrong. And your spelling and grammar are way above average what I read on the internet. Trust me on that. My automatic red pencil is always counting Oh and you can always speak to God. He does not want fancy words. He only wants a warm and loving heart and that you speak from there. Second time this 24 hours timespan that I am being reminded I need to read my bible more so I can recite the verse that I am thinking of. Because God says it somewhere. I am sure of that. And I think He says it because fancy words can sometimes cover up that the heart is not in it. God bless you, Caroline My Gift To You: 50,000 Guaranteed Visitors To Your Site |
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Active Member |
thank you caroline and rachel
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Master Contributor |
Phil: What a inspiring post. Everytime I read you post, it touched my heart. You are a blessing angel in this forum. I don't know how you get to there, but I am certain doing the same path like you. I read, I ask, I think, try to live in a meaningful way, at the same time do the samething like most of confusing people, live in a life but not really don't know why. This probably can confirm "money" is not the final goal, "For me, ultimate’ goal is the capacity to experience a good feeling". In some way, I believe the theory "human do thing are to gain pleasure or to avoid pain". To me, to experience good feeling is definetely gain pleasure. I couldn't agree with you more than this. In another words, our final goal is to fell good(pleasure), so anything that can really make you feel good, we should go straight for it. Yes, again, I have to agree with your opinion. I think we have that experience/experiencer feeling becasue human are three-folds being. Most of people don't think they are three folds or live with three folds. Most people think "physical body" or "mind" or "spirit" is the "I". To me, the "REAL I" are those three-folds combined "Being". In order to be really happy, we have to satisfied all three-folds. I think that is why if people only take care of just body, or mind, or spirit, still fell unhappy. So, if you think, when you make lot of money, you are going to be happy, I will said you probably not going to be really happy. Just my opinions though. Best wish to all. -IMHO =========================== |
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Mind-Blowingly Wonderful Contributor |
I think a helpful way to look at money is, imagine all the wonderful things you could do if you had a lot of it. And also, I think it’s helpful to think of the many things you think you could do or experience that you currently are NOT experiencing because you believe you need more money.
Maybe you think you could play more, explore more, rest more, relax more. Maybe you think you could be more giving or more loving, or more creative, more generous or kind. But now, do you really need even ten cents more, in order to express or experience more of what you want? Or, are you missing opportunities that you don’t even NEED more money for? Phil "The Universe is responding to how we feel." Esther Hicks |
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Master Contributor |
Anotate: Thank you for telling us your dream. This is the ultimate dream for most of "middle class". They try to get out of the "JOB" trap and live a quality life without checking the price first. Money can not buy everything, but Money can buy back your "freedom" and can let you have more time to dream and do the things you like. Best wish for all. -IMHO |
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Master Contributor |
It's definitely worth questioning why you want to be rich, this is a part of what I wrote in a section titled "Why are you here? - Why you deserve to be rich" in the Money & Stuff ebook:
"The desire for riches is really the desire for a bigger and more abundant life, which is in alignment with our nature. As humans, we are an extension of the same nature that governs plants, animals and everything in the universe. Everything in nature goes through natural cycles and seems to thrive when allowed to. If you accept that nature is constantly looking to evolve and expand, then it follows that we too, are looking to do the same, being an extension of that nature. Therefore, It's completely natural to have the desire for riches. Being rich enables us to let go of the whole working to survive mentality and in that provides us with the ability to live as the free spirits we were born to be. Another point that's really important is that ultimately, it's not about the money. We think that money will give us something, although if you're not happy now, don't expect money to change that. It's not money's purpose to take care of us, it's up to each one of us to find the joy within and have that reflected in life. If more money really took care of people, then we wouldn't have the statistic that 75% of lottery winners end up bankrupt within 5 years! The appeal of receiving a large amount of money (say from the lottery), to take care of everything is quite high in a lot of us. However, there's a reason why we have the circumstances we do and that reason can't be taken care of by money. There's always an underlying reason that has us set up the circumstances we have and dealing with those underlying reasons is what will have the surface circumstances change. While you deserve to be rich, you deserve it because it's already your nature, not for anything you think the money will do for you. The money is a means to experience life as you see fit, in other words it's there to be your servant, not your master! You can be in charge of the show when you realize the truth of you." |
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Mind-Blowingly Wonderful Contributor |
To me, that is not absolutely true. There are plenty of people with lots of money who still do not feel free. And if they don't FEEL free they really are NOT free. To me, most of the feeling of freedom (if not all of it) really comes from mastering your mind. It comes from insight or the skill of constructively dealing with your thoughts and beliefs. And also, to me, as you experience more freedom from more mastery of your mind and moods you naturally attact the things -- money, conditions, etc. -- that align with it. The idea that having more money – even a ton of it – means you will experience freedom, is a limiting belief. And, as long as you believe it, you cut yourself off from experiencing some of what you want to experience – freedom. If you believe ‘money is freedom’ and you don’t have money, you won’t ‘go looking’ to experience freedom in another way. Why not? Because you already believe you know where the experience of freedom comes from. "It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so." Will Rogers Phil "The Universe is responding to how we feel." Esther Hicks |
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Master Contributor |
What exactly is freedom? I sometimes wonder if people are talking about two different things while using the same term, this "freedom".
A person can master their mind and feel free while sitting in a prison. A person with no mastery of their mind, but who owns a private jet, making it possible to go just about anywhere they want, may call this "freedom". It is said that hundreds of years ago, many pirates equated owning a ship, which meant the ability to go wherever they wanted, to "freedom". Someone who owns a private jet may feel the same way today. A person who cannot afford the bus ride across town to visit a friend may feel they lack freedom. Many teenagers feel they have gained a great boost in freedom when they get their first car. They consider themselves to have gained more when they leave home for college or to enter the working world. Freedom from what? From the eyes and rules of parents and teachers? Some countries are said to be politically free but socially restrictive. For example, there may be no law preventing someone from doing, saying or believing a particular thing, but if their friends and family would disown them for doing, believing or saying that thing, is that freedom? Many successful people say money buys more options. Some equate that to freedom. When planning a vacation, the billionaire has more options than the man with ten cents in his pocket. As for why we need to get rich, the book explains that pretty clearly in the first few chapters. "You want to get rich in order that you may eat, drink, and be merry when it is time to do these things; in order that you may surround yourself with beautiful things, see distant lands, feed your mind, and develop your intellect; in order that you may love men and do kind things, and be able to play a good part in helping the world to find truth." _______ Follow your bliss! |
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Master Contributor |
Good question, thanks for asking this. There are different level of freedom. Since we are 3-folds being, all these three folds need to be satisfied in order to be happy. body/mind/spirit all need to have "freedom" in order for human being to be happy. To me and lot of people, body need to be free is the first step. Unfortunately, lot of us had been trapped into the "body freedom" by JOB/family/addiction/drug/alcohol etc..... in different ways. To me, the BASIC "Freedom" means "the right to choose without worry". To choose when to and how to go to office to work(without worry about get fired), to choose at delicious meal based on the taste of the food you like to eat(instead of look at price on the right first), to choose the items you like based on your feeling(without look at the price tag), to choose when and where to visit your out of country old parents (without considering the expensive airline tickets), to choose to support and give away money and materials to charity or anyone ask for help(without worrying about the coming monthly bill for myself). etc.... and the list goes con. Choose to do anything you like, feel anything you like, smell and taste anything you like, WHEN and HOW by your free will without considering the financial consequence. Freedom also means to choose "NOT" to do anything you don't like without financial consequence. Of course, we can find the example of people who have this choose but still unhappy, Then I will ask, can you find people who are lack of these choices and still happy? I said That's not possible. Try to persuade people "don't worry about the real life situation", just go ahead and feel happy and universe will take care of the rest, sometime seen a little too unrealistic and too risky. Occasionally, you may "lucky" get unexpected income(as the cases we constantly heard from forum member), Daily and monthly and yearly to get surprise income from Universe, I doubt it, at least so far, I haven't heard any body have lived the way like that. What happen to those people who keep on spending without planing and end up with bankruptcy. Keep on thinking universe will take care of it without knowing where is the monthly mortgage coming from is not a responsible way to teach our kids. Lot people will not agree with me but each one entitle to have it's own opinion for the true meaning of "freedom". There is no "right" or "wrong" answer for this kind of question, to express different opinions only help us to evolve to a better place as a human being. This is ONLY my opinion at this moment about "freedom". what is your answer for "true freedom" for you? Best wish to all, -IMHO |
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Mind-Blowingly Wonderful Contributor |
IMHO,
To me, the bottom line is this: Now you know what you want: Freedom from having to go to a job in order to have enough money to live well. Freedom to do things and go places without worrying about the money you’re spending, etc. In other words, you want plenty of money and/or plenty of passive income, maybe from residuals, royalties, passive business income, etc. So then, take this vision and become attuned to it. Align yourself with it. Practice FEELING what it would be like to actually have the money and freedom you want. Or, as TSOGR puts it: “In the mental realm, enter at once into full enjoyment of the things you want.” “See the things you want as if they were actually around you all the time. See yourself as owning and using them. Make use of them in your imagination just as you will use them when they are your tangible possession.” Wallace Wattles, in Chapter 8 of the Science of Getting Rich Here are quotes from a couple of real people who have done this kind of mental/emotional practice: "What I am most happy about is that I can zero in on a vision of where I want to be in the future. I can see it so clearly in front of me when I daydream that it's almost a reality. Then I get this easy feeling, and I don't have to be uptight to get there because I already feel like I'm there, that it's just a matter of time." Arnold Schwarzenegger “Affirming, over and over, “I am now creating a successful career (or whatever) in an easy and relaxed manner, in a healthy and positive way” will, over time, overcome a huge number of your doubts and fears. I imagined myself, over and over — even way back when I was a total poverty case — living a life of ease, strolling around my big white house on a hill, with nothing to do, sitting on several million worth of assets. I visualized this repeatedly, and it came true in my life.” Marc Allen, self-made publishing multi-millionaire, from an interview with Steve Pavlina http://www.stevepavlina.com/bl...arc-allen-interview/ And here’s how multi-millionaire and now, prosperity teacher, John Assaraf puts this process: “Just imagine something for a moment: Imagine you have an extra hundred thousand dollars and you can do anything you want with it. What are you doing? Let yourself soar. Explore that image of yourself doing whatever you want. How do you FEEL? Pay attention to the vibration of your body, of how you physically feel, of the mental uplift you are experiencing, of the emotions you are feeling. You are vibrating on a positive frequency, aren't you? Imagining all that goodness creates a positive vibration that is sent out into the universe. When you regularly use your imagination to recreate that positive vibration, repeating the same thought and the same feeling over and over, you create a conditioned program that will keep you in that frequency at a subconscious level. When you are regularly sending out good vibrations, the universe responds by sending an abundance of whatever it is you want back to you. Your positive vibrations attract your goals and dreams into your life, so start vibrating!” - John Assaraf, multimillionaire businessman, teacher, N.Y. Times bestselling author And our own Rebecca Fine has said: “Tending to your own thoughts and feelings and letting yourself become the perfect match to your desires brings you joy and peace. And I promise you that your own joy and peace are the keys to everything -- EVERYTHING -- you want, for yourself and others.” Quite a promise. But then, it seems she’s living proof of it. “Things will constantly change to match the feeling you have inside." Abraham-Hicks Phil "The Universe is responding to how we feel." Esther Hicks |
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Mind-Blowingly Wonderful Contributor![]() |
IMHO, are you sure you haven't heard of anyone being successful year after year in this way? This forum is full of people who have done this and this forum often mentions famous people who have built all their success on this principle of "being happy." I respectfully submit that you don't see it because you don't believe it. Allow yourself to believe just a little. Try it for a little while and see what happens! You already know what happens when you live in fear and lack. You know how effective being "responsible" is. How is that working out for you? I'm guessing you are looking for a better way -- otherwise you wouldn't be here. It really is okay to let all that stress and worry go. You'll feel better immediately and you can then use your thoughts to manifest all the freedom you want. Wally and Rebecca will show you how. You can trust the system. It works. Love and blessings, Rachel |
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Master Contributor |
Phil: Thank you for your inspiring response. Your clearly see my dreams and clearly point out the solution to fulfill these dreams is to "FEEL GOOD". I will definitely try to remind myself from now on to "feel good" inorder to bring more good feeling in the future. Do you (or anyone) know some good techniques we can use daily to "feel good"? I don't like some lucky people can visualize, when I close eyes, I see only black Rachel: Thank you for your remind me "worry and fear" are the powerful killers for our dreams.
When I said I haven't heard, I mean most of time we hear people said, I was geting a surprised check from nowhere...my dream vacations come from someone I don't even know etc.. But does anybody really have "constantly" good responses from universe(formless), because, if the theory works, it should work all the time, all the dreams should be able to come true daily, monthly, yearly.... not just once a while, universe give you a surprise, then wait, then other requests didn't show up, then some show up etc.... This surprising response from universe(formless) cause people to lose faith and wondering why some request to universe come true but some don't. I never heard anyone can make "all" his requests come true all the time, just wondering WHY. Best wish to all -IMHO |
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Mind-Blowingly Wonderful Contributor |
One ‘technique’ that helps me a LOT is to read many stories by people who have used this ‘feeling good’ technique. With that in mind, I’d recommend getting a book called ‘The Neville Reader’, a compilation of books or articles by Neville Goddard. Besides great stories, Neville ties in his great wisdom throughout. One story I remember was, a couple wanted to find a buyer for a property they had on the market for over a year. They attended a Neville lecture and did what he said: Imagine with feeling you have sold the property for a price you would be happy with. They took his advice literally. I believe they even stopped advertising the property. It didn’t matter. Long story short, about a month into the time they were doing as Neville said, a man ‘happened’ to come by who was a builder. He had no idea if the property was being offered. He inquired about the property. He tried to make lower offers, but the couple decided to stay with what they had in mind. The builder bought for exactly what the couple wanted. Years ago I heard of a homeless man who took this technique and just imagined himself doing very well, living a rich, wonderful life. One day a stranger approached him, seeing he was homeless. The stranger talked with him for awhile and then offered him a job. It turned out the man was wealthy. He eventually taught the former homeless man the same ‘Neville’ technique, and the homeless man went on to create some profitable Internet businesses with enough passive income so that he no longer needed money to live very well. By the way, this Neville technique was also taught by the Reverend Ike, in his New York church. What is the Neville technique? In a nutshell, Neville says, “Feeling is the secret.” Another helpful strategy I often use is, I remind myself that for almost every situation I am in, whether it’s financial or health or relationship related, how I FEEL about it is up to ME, to how I decide or choose to THINK about it. In this way I remind myself that I already HAVE the power to determine how I feel. It’s not something I need to go and get. It’s just something I need to consciously make deliberate USE of. Here’s how others put it: “We create our own heaven or hell. Your thoughts can imprison you or set you free. Complications, conditions or people do not upset you, but the way you think about them causes your upset. Freedom is not possible until we discipline and retrain our minds.” - p. 124 of Choose To Live Peacefully by Susan Smith Jones, Ph.D. “If you say, “I just can’t help the way I feel,” you will only make yourself a victim of your misery ~ and you’ll be fooling yourself, because you can change the way you feel. If you want to feel better, you must realize that your thoughts and attitudes--not external events--create your feelings. You can learn to change the way your think, feel, and behave in the here-and-now.” - from The Feeling Good Handbook by Dr. David Burns “If you let the world affect how you feel, what you are saying is, "I do not make my own decisions, I just have a Pavlovian response to anything that may twang my emotions."” Stuart Wilde in ‘Life Was Never Meant To Be A Struggle’ “When you feel frustrated or upset by a person or a situation, remember that you are not reacting to the person or the situation, but to your feelings [beliefs] about the person or the situation.” - from The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success by Deepak Chopra “I can't emphasize this strongly enough... If you haven't been able to feel how you want to feel and haven't been able to get yourself to do something you want to do... then you are being victimized by your own disempowering thoughts, beliefs and attitudes.” - Mike Brescia, President, Think Right Now International “Other people can neither make us miserable nor make us happy.” - p.3 of Choice Theory by William Glasser, M.D. “When anything external distresses us, it is not the event which causes us pain; rather, it is our response to it, and this we have the power to revoke at every given moment." - Epictetus “The primary cause of unhappiness is never the situation but your thoughts about it. Be aware of the thought you are thinking. Separate them from the situation, which is always neutral, which always is at it is.” Eckhart Tolle in ‘The New Earth’ p. 90 "If for a moment, you think your destiny is being determined by external circumstances, you're sleepwalking." Dr. Michael Beckwith Another technique I use it to read the Abraham-Hicks Daily Quotes. See link below. Abraham-Hicks Quotes And, when I find an uplifting quote, I copy and paste it into a list I have. So I can go back and read these often. Another thing I do is, I do NOT watch TV, especially the news, but also the programs that make ‘drama’ out of competitions, like ‘American Idol’ or ‘Dancing With the Stars, UNLESS I hear of a particularly uplifting performance. (My wife or son will usually tell me about these.) You need to understand that the news THRIVES on what makes people fearful or stressed. There is a saying in journalism, “If it bleeds, it leads.” They know that fear engendering, stress provoking news gets the biggest audience. I’m also constantly on the lookout for uplifting stories. (Does that tell you where my focus is? Where’s yours?) Another technique I use is, I try to monitor myself throughout my day. I try to ‘check in’ with myself, every hour, to see how I’m feeling. And if it’s not good, I try to get myself thinking some uplifting, peace engendering, kinder or more empowering thought. Sometimes I just ponder words and wonder what it feels like: Peace: What does it feel like? Happiness: What does it feel like? Freedom: What does it feel like? Ease: What does it feel like? Another thins I do is, I focus on what I want – excellent health, wonderful relationships, plenty of money, freedom, peace, inner calm, a feeling of ease, etc. And take ‘feel good’ steps towards aligning myself more to these. This includes reading books, exercising, conscious breathing, stretching, or seeing uplifting movies or documentaries (e.g., ‘October Sky, Groundhog Day, Seabiscuit, etc.) or interviews (e.g., Will Smith on Charlie Rose, Esther Hicks on Oprah Radio). Another thing I do is, I spend a lot of time doing nothing,… just relaxing. I’ll purposefully go somewhere, a coffee shop, park, other places, and just relax, maybe do some people watching, just getting myself into a good feeling. I’ll sometimes imagine a ‘slice’ of my ‘ideal life’ and what that would actually be like. You don’t have to know. You just make it up and have fun with it. No attachments. Just enjoy what you imagine. Another thing: Notice yourself. Notice the thoughts you think about yourself. How do they make you feel? Are you telling yourself you’re wonderful? Are your thoughts about yourself loving, nurturing, encouraging and kind? If not, what do you think you’re doing to yourself? And when you think of others are you being kind? Or, when someone does something you don’t like, are you being as considerate as possible, attempting to give them some slack, or are you silently criticizing and judging them, or are you ready to jump all over them? What if people could read your feelings about them? What do you think would happen? Maybe it already is. This also goes for people you don’t know; the strangers you see every day, or the people you read about or watch on TV. Are your thoughts kind for these people? Esther Hicks says, “The Universe responds to how you feel.” How do you feel about the people you don’t know? How would they feel about you, if they knew your thoughts about them? I also make it a point to enjoy whatever I ‘need’ to do, e.g., dishes, laundry, pay bills, shopping, preparing for the next day, etc. I like the way one of my bosses put it: “If you’re going to do it anyway, you might as well find a way to enjoy it.” Phil "The Universe is responding to how we feel." Esther Hicks |
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Master Contributor |
Thanks Phil, that was a sensational post.
It really is amazing when we focus on feeling good, and I find the more I focus on it, the more of a snowball effect it has. I suppose it's the opposite of that saying, "when it rains, it pours". Maybe we can say, "when the sun's out, it shines". But when you think about it, that's what law of attraction is all about, giving you more of whatever you offer. |
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Grand Poobah (more fun than "Administrator") |
Do what you love, every day. Love & blessings, and, of course-- EXPECT Success! Rebecca |
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Active Member |
[Why Rich?
Long ago I remember thinking to myself, I just do not believe that god put us on this earth to be a slave (A borrower is a slave to the lender) to any man or anything, to enslave yourself in your own mind because you do not have enough of manmade form (money) to insure that you just have the basis of life A home, food, clothes, I didn’t make it that way, but here it is. I have to be rich, just to live, how can you not let what people say to you brother you?, when it’s your BOSS, who knows that this job is important to you and your family way of life , no matter how little is pays, Thank God For SOG, its let me know that what I feel is real, people know other people whom they seem to think is just trying to get rich quick, say thing like man, here he goes again with another get rich quick idea, I used to think the same way , now thanks to SOG I realizes that he knows there is a better way and is trying to find it.. Maybe I will give him a copy of SOG !!! |
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