quote:

You must get rid of the last vestige of the old idea that there is a Deity whose will it is that you should be poor or whose purposes may be served by keeping you in poverty.

Hi there! I'm new to the forums here, though I'm not new to The Science of Getting Rich. I first found the book online a few years ago. I've read it a few times, but it wasn't until last night that I decided I want to take the book seriously. I've been very dissatisfied with my life lately, and after a period of personal reflection I decided SoGR was the way to go.

The problem: I really have to struggle to except the idea from the quoted passage above. (It from the beginning of chapter five, as I'm sure some of you know.) All of my life I've surrounded myself with people who don't value striving for wealth. Of course there is a certain hypocrisy involved--they (we) all want wealth, but working too hard to get it (much less thinking about it all the time) has always been considered immoral. This attitude came from an odd combination of influences from Christianity and various liberal sources.

The attitude that wealth is evil has nearly ruined me. When I look at the past ten years of my life (I'm 30 now) I see a man that has accomplished almost nothing. This aggravates me to no end, since I can say without exaggeration that I am more talented and intelligent than many people in many ways. But like Wattles said, "many people who have great talent remain poor, while others who have very little talent get rich." (Chapter 2)

I'm sick of not living up to my potential. I'm sick of not contributing anything that I value to the world. It is my sincere hope that through the application of the principles in The Science of Getting Rich that I can become a person I respect, and that I enjoy being.

And so, you can expect to hear from me on these forums now and then. I'll share my experiences, and I'll also be looking forward to hearing from others.

Have a good one...

Mr Focus

Congratulations!
Your current level of Mind is the best place to start off from.

Well done!
It normally takes a lot of guts to admit this to your Self.

Let go and Enjoy!

Hi Mr.Focus,
A lot of people, myself included, struggle with this. I have grown up with a very negative picture of rich people. I used to believe (and to be honest, I still have to work on changing these belives!) that anyone rich is a vulgar thief, who only got loads of money because he or she cheated or stole from the poor. I have a very negative picture of capitalism, and instead of looking upon an investor or someone who start a factory as a creative person who's contributing to society by creating a product in demand and giving people work, I tend to look upon the factory owner as someone exploiting the working class...I also tend to look upon any "money business" as dirty, vulgar and kind of prostitution, as well as judging rich people as mean and cheap - while it's very often the contrary that is true!
To change these believes I try to find examples that contradict my belives. For instance, I have great respect for both Bill Gates and Richard Branson. I've also started to think about all the good things I could do if only I had more money. Not only charity, but also in terms of creating new jobs where I live etc.
The funny thing is, that in thinking and trying to practice "SOGR way" I find I'm less concerned about money. I try to concentrate on doing a good job - while before I'd concentrate on making money in my job. I know that Universe will take care of the money part, so I don't need to worry about that. But having said that, I still feel "guilty" wanting a new, fast laptop to help me in my work while there still are children starving in the world...
Though - would there be more food for starving children if I didn't get my laptop??? Or is it actually more likely the other way around?

I struggled with this in the past also. And I am much older than you, my friend. So don't despair.

Of course God wants us to be rich!

There are several examples in the bible of God encouraging us to do well financially. Remember the story of the servants whose master went away and gave them money for safe-keeping? The two who invested the money and made it grow were viewed as good servants, but the one who just buried the money was not held in high esteem.

Also, in the bible, God encourages us to give the whole tithe to the church and says: "Prove me now herewith and see if I will not open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it." That there will not be room enough to receive it. WOW!

Yes indeed, God does want us to be rich. To be very rich. To be very, very rich!!!

However, I have stopped attending church because, in my view, much of the truth in the bible is misrepresented.

I wish you the very best.

Congratulations! And you figured this out at a young age so you'll have a long time to enjoy the benefits.

P.2 "There is nothing wrong in wanting to get rich. The desire for riches is really the desire for a richer, fuller, and more abundant life - and that desire is praiseworthy. The person who does not desire to live more abundantly is abnormal ..."

There has been a big movement the past 30-40 years to convince us that it's "selfish" to want more. Look around you. Abundance and and increase are everywhere. Wildflowers explode in growth, animal populations grow to level that can be supported.

The key to doing it correctly is "more to all". Your getting rich can ONLY cause increase for others. And how can that be bad. You're not going take anything from anyone. You're going to add to the world. It's not a fixed pie, it's a growing pie.

Think of all the new companies created as a result of the growth of Microsoft. And that doesn't even take into account all the MS millionaires here in the NW. (Not saying it's perfect, but it shows the power of creativity)

Join the Practical Genius course. Don't wait for 2 years like some of us. It'll really help you be Mr.Focus.

Welcome.

Mr. Focus,
I'm about to turn 40 this summer, so you're doing pretty well! I also want to recommend the Practical Genius course - and you set your own tuition for the course. It's a gift to yourself and it will keep giving. The course helps you to also devote time to the topic on a daily basis and gives you additional insight each day. It's filled with tools that can help you to see set points and work through them. I am on day 7 and am very grateful for it. I have a sense of peace and calm about me that is a little freaky, but good! I'm going with it. I don't need to stress out. It's all good. My focus is set, I'm following the course and keeping my eyes on the prize.

The fact that you've come this far is great. Now just keep going! Don't settle! And don't be setting any limits either. There is no limit. It's all about you and what you want and how you feel and where you want to be.

I look forward to seeing you on the forum! Welcome!

Welcome Mr. Focus,

You have chosen the right path at the right time in your life to start with SOGR. Why? Because nothing is coincidental. It could be that you will eventually avoid some of your friends/acquaintices who, up til now, you have been hanging out with, but in return you will attract people that are like minded and this will help you focus better. Each one of us on this forum are here to help, support, listen to each other and to share our stories and happenings. You have, as I like to call it - "come home".
A warm welcome.

Hey Focus! I just turned 32 and although it would have been nice to know about this 10 years ago I have learned a great deal so far. I have a university education and I sacrificed a lot to become a teacher so that I would have a great career. I understand that your life is what you make of it quite literally and that the sky is the limit. I would also recommend that you take the Practical Genius course. It helps clarify the SOGR book. Have fun and realize that we all come with preconceived ideas about wealth. It is nice to learn as part of a world wide community. Have fun!

Theres nothing like being sick and tired of being sick and tired!
As you can tell by reading everyone's postings, we've all encountered similiar beliefs to yours in the past. 'Theres just not enough to go around, your a sinner if you want more', (I actually had two religious door knockers come to my house yesterday and give me a printout telling me I'm a sinner for wanting more!) I think we'll always run into people with these beliefs, but I've found from re-reading the book, coming on here for discussions, doing the course, forcing my own beliefs to change to something more preferable, your circumstances will start to change as well and those old beliefs, when you hear someone else saying them as if they are true, you'll wonder how they can believe such a thing when its so obviously not true! I got rid of the saying 'money is the root of all evil' and replaced it 'you can't help the poor by being poor' when I first started. You'll have to find something new and positve to replace the old beliefs with as well.

Good luck! Look foward to hearing more from you,

Shannon

Welcome, Mr Focus!

Up to now, you have not been living up to your potential. Up to now you believed that wealth was evil.

Welcome to your new thoughts. How can wealth ever be evil? I will never forget the lesson of Mr Jim Rohn. He taught me that more money will only make you more of what you already are. When I see wealth in abundance, I see clean, fresh and safe drinking water for a billion people!

And that is just for starters. I am ready to receive lots of money and getting much better in knowing what to do with it.

Caroline

Welcome to this great forum--love the name--"Mr. Focus".I grew up with similar influences so I can really relate.Don't be to hard on yourself concerning your accomplishments.I'm 42 and just really beginning now to "think and act in the certain way".Like others have said,my advice is to take the course as it will really deepen your understanding of this great book.Don't make the mistake that I did,of waiting for 2 years to take the practical genius course as it really is life changing.Also,use that "sick and tired feeling" as a "new found determination' to ellicit change in your life.Best wishes.

Mr Focus-

Depending where you grew up and the common beliefs imbedded in you - it could seem challenging that wealth is your divine right.

However, when you look outside and see the abundance of grass and trees and think about how unlimited air supply is - you start to realize God's abundance - which is always much greater than what man could fathom.

When you tune into God's abundance daily, your mind starts to open to the possibilities. Think BIG. Your actions will soon follow.

All the Best-
LeTicia

If anyone knows about the history of Christianity -- I would like to know where this "old idea" came from and when.

Is it also present in Judaism? In Islam?

I do know that the anti-body or anti-pleasure aspects of Christianity came from St. Augustine, who was a Manichee before he was a Christian. The Manichees believed that Heaven was good, Earth was bad, therefore we should have as little to do with the flesh as possible so we can be more heavenly.

I think over the years people distorted the term humble with poverty.

It is noted in the bible that it is only God that can give lasting wealth. So when we "work with the Father", and meditate on good things(Philipian 4:8), we can have guiltless riches.

See also Proverbs 3:9-10,16; Proverbs 8:18,21; Malachi 3:10; Isaiah 55:11

God is always talking about prospering us when we think correctly, know who we are, and work with him.

Hope this helps...

LeTicia

quote:

Originally posted by Rod Schmidt:
If anyone knows about the history of Christianity -- I would like to know where this "old idea" came from and when.

Is it also present in Judaism? In Islam?

I do know that the anti-body or anti-pleasure aspects of Christianity came from St. Augustine, who was a before he was a Christian. The Manichees believed that Heaven was good, Earth was bad, therefore we should have as little to do with the flesh as possible so we can be more heavenly.

Hi Rod and Mr. Focus ~

There was quite a lengthy discussion on this subject(and the topic of religion in general) a couple of months ago (I don't know how to post the link, but I think it was under the Discuss the Book forum). You might want to see if you can find it as it has some valueable and informative information in it.

But, one point that I would just like to mention in support of Christianity is that it's not and never was a teaching that money or wealth is evil. Jesus' teachings never condemned money itself or any of its basic uses. The proper use of riches is approved by God. The one thing that I always try to keep in mind is that while true Christianity does not condemn money, it does counsel us on our attitude toward money. 1 Timothy 6:10 says that "the LOVE of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things...," not money itself. Our heart and attitude come into play with this, and Christianity wisely cautions us not to be greedy. Greed is desire out of control -- control being the core issue: Will the money we accumulate or the material things we want serve our needs, or will our needs serve money? And as it's been pointed out in other threads on this topic, money is just one means of acquiring the things we need or want in life.

Since we live in a world that requires us to use money, then it's not wrong to want it. Even a lot of it. It can afford us the lifestyle that we desire to have. But the main teaching of Christianity is to pursue a course in life that will make us "rich toward God," and to be balanced with a view toward money. There are absolutely many Christians who are wealthy and God does not disappove of them for being such.

As for your comment regarding the Manichee teaching that "Earth is bad" and that "we should have as little to do with the flesh as possible so as to be more heavenly," I would just contrast this with what the Bible tells us (and Chrisianity teaches): that in God's view "everything he had made" when creating the earth and humankind was "very good." (Genesis 1:31)

Hope this helps you to keep thinking of terms of abundance and sheds a little light on how things can appear one way, but upon examination are truly something different.

I think that this is the link that Icefairy mentioned. It was started on December 10th and the last post to the string was December 31st.

I hope this helps anyone who is interested.

http://forums.scienceofgettingrich.net/eve/forums/a...7609152/m/5821074471

Certainly original Christianity doesn't say that it's bad to be rich or good to be poor -- nor that there's anything wrong with pleasure -- or divorce, for that matter.

But these ideas got into our culture somehow, and I'd like to know how.

There's a related idea that there's "not enough to go around." I'd like to know where that came from, too.

Thomas Malthus said that population increases exponentially, but food production increases only linearly, therefore as time goes on there will be less and less food to go around. (The truth is that food production has been increasing exponentally too.)

Mr Focus

Welcome and great to see you are reinforcing your 'new' you with your screen name

The journey you have begun is just the beggining and what a wonderful ride...enjoy each moment of new insight. As your awareness of 'who you are' changes to 'who you choose to become' your life will become full.

As for the quote

quote:

You must get rid of the last vestige of the old idea that there is a Deity whose will it is that you should be poor or whose purposes may be served by keeping you in poverty.

and where it comes from...well, does it really matter where it comes from?

Fact is, so often we compare ourselves to others and 'judge' our own 'wealth' by others. Rather then looking to 'where it came from' and 'judging' our poverty against others...

Look instead with clarity to you new Clear Mental Image of what you want and of the richness and wealth you already have (HINT: gratitude).

Enjoy the journey

quote:

Originally posted by Rod Schmidt:
Certainly original Christianity doesn't say that it's bad to be rich or good to be poor -- nor that there's anything wrong with pleasure -- or divorce, for that matter.

But these ideas got into our culture somehow, and I'd like to know how.

Hi Rod (and thank you Avinash for posting that link) ~

While I think Mumprenuer makes a good point in stating that it really doesn't matter where these ideas came from, I personally think you have a valid question and really desire to have an answer to it. This is one of those topics where we can get really off course in this forum from SOGR and into regligious debate (I prefer the word discussion) if we're not careful, so let me make just one observation that I noticed from your above words.

You said that "Certainly original Christianity doesn't say that it's bad to be rich or good to be poor...". You hit the nail on the head with the word ORIGINAL. My next comment may sound harsh, but in truth, the frank explanation for the vast diversity of beliefs and practices among professed Christians today (including differing views on wealth and money) is that they have not adhered to Jesus' teachings...ORIGINAL Christianity. Some professed Christians take from the Bible whatever fits their needs and ignore whatever fails to resonate with their own religious traditions or beliefs. Thereby, many conflicting beliefs have developed. Beliefs that do not tie to ORIGINAL Christianity. And thus, Christianty gets blamed for something that faulty human reasoning is responsible for. The Bible (the book Christians claim to believe in) comments a great deal on wealth and money and it presents a very well-balanced picture of the role it should play in our lives.

As you can probably tell, I believe in the Bible and in true Christianity. Many of the folks on this forum are of other religions and beliefs. If you would like to delve further into this subject, I would love to have an offline sometime and discuss some things in more detail if that's something you'd enjoy doing. My email is posted in my profile so feel free to contact me.

For purposes of this forum, and in agreement with Wally's words that we "must get rid of the last vestige of the old idea that there is a Deity whose will it is that you should be poor or whose purposes may be served by keeping you in poverty," I would just like to say that since God is the original source of any wealth (some substitute Formless/Source/etc. but my own belief is in God), we need only to look at this beautiful planet Earth that is our home, with its ideal features that are necessary to sustain life. Our universe is a home, designed (I believe) by God. If it was not God's purpose for us to have the best possible life there is (including both spiritual and physical
"riches") then what accounts for our magnificient home with all its wonders? Truly, there is a Diety who does care about each and every one of us and whose purposes are NOT served by keeping people in the dark or in poverty. And for that, we can be ever so grateful.

Here is what Rebecca wrote on Dec 28, '05

Friends, while it may be infinitely "interesting" to discuss religion and to get into whose interpretation of this religious writing or that scripture is correct, or any of the other stuff that can be debated endlessly, my personal view is that IF what you have to say isn't directly in discussion of some part of SOGR or its teachings, then it doesn't really belong in this "Discuss The Book" forum and doesn't really get us anywhere.

How 'bout we go back to the guidelines and discuss individual religious beliefs, interpretations, and so on ONLY as they apply directly to our topic here? Fair enough?

Many blessings, and, of course--
EXPECT Success!
Rebecca

I agree. We are getting off topic and should stick to discussions relating directly to the SOGR.